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  • Hey Juraj, so I found someone (Celess22) who's been able to get the wowwiki templates to work here, but he needs access to edit the JS page to fix a problem between it and the css, and that can only be done if he's given admins rights from a bureaucrat. I am checking on community central if there'a way to give temp. rights, but assuming there isn't, is that something you'd want to do?

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    • That persons page does not exist as a real person. Tell them to make an edit in here so theyre name officially shows up in this wikia so I can give temp admin.


      • edit my bad they have had made edits on here. Ill make them an admin immediately. For your fair warning, if they destroy this place, you will be partly to blame.
      • edit #2 It has been done.
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    • Just what I was about to say: that I am ready to do that if you trust him that he won't do any harm. Seems Drewf0 did it sooner :P BTW: Welcome back, do you plan to actively contribute?

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    • Ok, I let him know he should be able to edit it now. Drew also said he's just lurking and to say hi to you.

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    • Oh, btw, Drew wanted me to ask around for the community's thoughts on whether we should add (or not add) a Discord chat on the side (like you see here on LoL).

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    • I am for it, but community here isn't that much active lately :/

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    • There actually was a "Black Death plague" in Temeria, according to Sapkowski's notes. Catriona (also known as "Red Death") appeared near the end of 1270s. BTW: Isn't Royalty redunant O.o

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    • Strange, didn't see this until now, sorry about that. Yeah, I was noticing as I was going through categories we seem to have two that are the same "Royalty" and "Royal family members". Obviously one needs to go.

      Also, should House of Trojden and House of Thyssen somehow be combined, as they're both Kovir/Poviss royalty?

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    • Red Death's from The Lady of the Lake, Black from dynastic descriptions. I would say royalty can go - Royal family members sounds more precise.

      I wouldn't say. Its like Tuirseachs & an Craites or Emreises & Voorhises. However since you brought it up - official translation is Troyden.

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    • Ok. So is "Trojden" incorrect or was it a mistranslation?

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    • "Trojden" & "dom Trojdenidow" is Polish original. Official translation's "Troyden" & "House of Troyden".

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    • Ah ok. I'll add that in then and fix the page names.

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    • Oh btw, what are your thoughts on the "queens and consorts" category? I know it's not very often, but I've found a few male characters that were consorts, so it doesn't feel right to have it labeled that. I was thinking maybe just have "Rulers" and "Consorts" as opposed to what we currently have ("Monarchs" and "Queens and Consorts").

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    • Good. Bernika was ruler of Talgar only. Oh and I give you permission to delete Kovir and Poviss Rulers - redunant if we have monarchs.

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    • Cool. Yeah, the whole character category area is a bit of a mess atm. We have a couple sub-categories for certain families running around and whatnot.

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    • Mhm, do you plan to clean it up?

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    • Yeah, I'm chiseling away at it. I won't be able to do much until later today, but should have it mostly set up right this weekend.

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    • May I ask, what led you to conclusion that Benda and Aideen were lovers, possibly? 'cause they were kinda family... :P

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    • Strange, I thought I corrected that O.o

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    • Oh, sorry - clicked on a wrong diff. while I am by it. Kaedweni royal family's Dynasty of the Unicorn.

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    • Oh, ok xD Wasn't sure yet if I was going to make a tree for Kaedwen's, on account that their family line is very sporadic and so few of them.

      Oh, I also noticed something odd with the Kovir and Poviss monarch navbox. Why is Godamba, Scarab, Otto, and Guido listed under "other members" when they weren't born or even married into royalty? I could see possibly having Edmund on there because he married Alicja, but the rest?

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    • Practically only because they would drown in these page quantities and wouldn't be clicked on as much. But you have a point - they weren't royalty.

      Speaking of Kaedwen, someone in the past made assumption that Deirdre was King Benda's daughter even though I only saw mention of her being "king's daughter". Can you calculate if it fits?

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    • From what I've looked at, most have Deirdre labeled as Benda's daughter, but I can't find concrete evidence on it (I don't know if they got the info from the books).

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    • btw, when you can, can you check over Corbett's page? I did a web translation of the genealogy site for Ciri, and not everything translated right, so wanted to make sure it got the right information.

      Also, do we know old Benda was? His page has him linking to Gedovius but then he's also mentioned as helping break news about Esteril's elopement (Gedovius' great-grandson).

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    • Info at Corbett's right, do you plan to continue with others? I would really appreciate it, however before adding in these things, check others (for example genalogy containts evidence that Viviana wasn't Ceran's only child ;)

      We don't. There was theory about name being used by more rulers but I doubt. Elven ancestry, perhaps? And how about Deirdre?

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    • Eventually yeah, I'd like to add what info I can from the genealogy site to help expand each character. Unfortunately Benda didn't appear to have a page on the site as I'm getting errors when I try to click links to it so I can't find anything on Deirdre.

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    • I think that we can safely asume she was his daughter, it kinda fits. Oh and with Kaedweni royals -> family: Dynasty of the Unicorn

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    • Well, I added all the info I could get from the Dynastic Descriptions (that I could find anyways).

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    • Glad for that but how about Benda? At the momment there's naught about him revealing Esteril...

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    • Benda is mentioned on Esteril's page as the one that broke the news to the grandparents, but as Benda's link is broken (or never had his page added) I don't know if it was to the same Benda during Gedovius' time.

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    • He would certainly write Benda II in dynastic descriptions if that was a different man. So you won't add that info?

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    • Deirdre is Benda's daughter.

      We don't know if Benda who had participated in war with Kovir and Benda who contacted with Videmont about Esteril are the same person, but this is quite possible.

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    • So maybe just write a small note on Benda's page stating there could be more than one Kaedweni king that was named Benda.

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    • Yeah why not. And what about Viviana being the only child?

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    • She (and Ceran) didn't have a page on the site, so there's no information to say whether or not the Cerran and Impecca had more children.

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    • And how about Coram's (his brother) entry? No further mention of some "ruling descendets"?

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    • No, only mentions something about the coat of arms and the legend of how the two met the twin sisters and through those marriages as to why Calanthe and Meve are distant cousins. They don't even have so much as a link.

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    • Will you link me to it?

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    • "długo i sprawiedliwie panowali, po nich zaś potomkowie ich, nowa, z krwi obu sławnych domów wywiedziona drzewa szlachetnego gałąź" - suggests at least two children, doesn't it?

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    • I think that was referring to the two families (Coram being Cintra and Ceran being Lyria/Rivia) but yes, considering Meve is supposedly related to Calanthe through that branch, its possible they had another child that continued the Lyria/Rivia line. That or the author messed up some details :p

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    • What'll we assume? :D

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    • I guess just assume they had other child(ren) that weren't named.

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    • Right. I also see you are adding Biography to char. with enough info. Radovid III?

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    • It was a last minute thing when I realized a few had no header separations.

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    • Yeah but I meant if you could reshape his page into one with BIO? Would look better IMHO.

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    • ohhh, gotcha.

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    • Interesting bit, his nickname is "The Red" in CDPR's The World of the Witcher book, while in the official book translation he's "Rufus". Could be handled like on William II's wikipedia page.

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    • Do you know anything about this page? An anon user just added and I can't find anything on it so was it maybe mentioned in the books?

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    • It actually is from B&W. Regis mentions the story at his first appearence. BTW I made some research and think that the "County of Ruyter" page should be tranformed into "Ruyter family".

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    • Ah ok. I don't remember it giving that much information in BaW but been awhile with all that dialogue.

      So is the County of Ruyter not a physical location?

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    • I believe. We know about counts and at least one duke de Ruyter mentioned in Blood of Elves. Can one place be both county and duchy?

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    • I believe so. I think it's akin to how we can have both towns and counties with the same name, so I think it's possible a duchy could also have a county with the same name.

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    • The thing's that de Ruyter pride themselves with "being count for the xth generation". There's only one Duke known. And we have much more info on family then on county, right?

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    • True, but instead of changing the County of Rutyer, perhaps created a new page for the Ruyter family to show one is a location and one is a family.

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    • I support family page but isn't county's redunant then? All the things there can be mentioned at family.

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    • Well, we do have quite a few pages on here (locations, people, etc.) that are only a few sentences, so it'll fit in with them xD

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    • You really wanna extend number of such pages? :D

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    • lol, well we can always hold out hope that the author will put out more information on those pages in the future.

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    • So thats it. We gonna have 1+ redunant page? :P

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    • Yep :p

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    • Gonna start family page?

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    • I can start it in a couple days. Right now somewhere where I can't make a lot of big edits atm.

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    • Speaking of small pages, what about all these? It might make more sense to combine them all into one page considering most only have one or two names.

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    • I can agree with that.

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    • You did nice works with ranks and units. I was afraid a bit, but it actually isn't bad. Have you seen Thronebreaker? 

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    • No, I haven't looked much into the Gwent stuff. What about it?

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    • Nor do I, this however will be story campaign centered on Meve. Should check it ;) While I am at it - could you add info from dynastic desc. on her page?

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    • Meve didn't have a page. I added all the info that was available on there to here (which was most of the House of Thyssen, Redanian, Temerian, Cintrian, and Ciri's ancestors).

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    • I think you mentioned there was something about her in Calanthe's entry or some such. I just feel that with story coming to Gwent there will be bigger interest in her :)

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    • Oh, yeah Calanthe's page on that site mentioned Meve briefly (basically Calanthe was trying to find a husband, but one of the rumors going around was that she was having a relationship with her distant cousin, Meve). But that was the only thing mentioned about her.

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    • You don't feel like its worth adding it? Oh and let me know if you saw the trailer and what you think. Pure awesomeness...

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    • THEY'VE TAKEN EVERYTHING FROM ME... NOW I WILL HAVE IT BACK

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    • Not really, as it was just a rumor and nothing backed it up. If anything, it could be added as a note on Meve's page, but that's about it.

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    • Uhm, I see. On the matter of unused monsters: Wight is used (with B&W) and do they need TW3 bestiary category?

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    • I think it's fine without it, as it eventually did get implemented into an expansion, which is why I also decided not to add their info from the leaked material.

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    • True. Perhaps you noticed but in 8h I am leaving for Italy where I'll stay for 12-days. Also can you please recheck Witch hunter? For wording and the problem with concept art, also could you clean-up gallery there? I think it doesnt need that many. 

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    • Sure, I'll look it over. Have fun on your trip!

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    • I've been thinking, since in game we see the Temerian COA is the one with the 3 lilies, should we do away with the other versions and switch it to the in game one? Or is it described differently in the novels?

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    • In the novels is black with lilies on it (the exact number is not written but for sure more than 3). Anyway I prefer too the blue one with 3 lilies.

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    • Ah, interesting. So maybe keep the others then, just switch the small COA we use to the 3 lilies to make it more recognizable on pages?

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    • This one ?

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    • Yeah, that one.

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    • Yeah I agree. But we don't have a flag like that for the characters infobox, right?

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    • Yeah, atm we just have the patterned flag one with lilies repeating across it.

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    • Think that this could work?

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    • Not so blurred but yeah, something like that.

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    • Um yeah. How about now?

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    • I just uploaded one xD

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    • Cool. But... all the old infoboxes with the template will change automatically or we must do it manually? D:

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    • Those that use templates can be changed by just editing one, but if it's in use by a direct link to the image, they'll have to be changed over.

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    • Like the one in Nothern Kingdoms page?

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    • For the COA, yeah. Although if we see a need for it, I could create templates out of all the COAs.

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    • Can you explain to me why you changed Temerian flag? The one filled with lilies is canon.

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    • That's what I was asking earlier about if there was a more identifiable flag for Temeria or a more percise version as the game coa has just the three lilies.

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    • Yeah, the Temerian flag was quite confusing on the infoboxes.

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    • Flag&COA with lot of lilies're in current use since Gardik's rule. Jarre says it in The Lady of the Lake, though atm I can't provide page.

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    • So wait, where did the trivia bit on Goidemar's page come from about him being responsible for creating the 3 lilies COA?

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    • We, original COA was with black lion. Then Goidemar changed it (as on his page). Gardik made last change, COA was to be filled.

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    • So I'm confused. You mean Gardic, Goidemar's father, or someone else? Because I assumed once the son took over, his father was dead and therefore couldn't make other changes.

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    • Maybe we can make a flag filled but with more space between the lilies.

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    • F*ck. Now you can say I'm tired from swimming :DD I meant Cedrik.

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    • lmao, ok that makes more sense now. Then yeah, I'd suggest what Bizippo said: one with larger or more spaced out lilies to make it easier to identify.

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    • That would be heraldically incorect. What's wrong with previous?

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    • Well, when it's a thumbnail, all we see is black and white dots. The only reason I could even tell it was supposed to represent Temeria was when you clicked on it.

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    • That's error made by games. I mean, do you plan to change thing canon grounded?

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    • Well, that's why I was asking if there's a more percise version xD You say it was lilies studded all over, but did it say percisely how many? If not, we could make them large enough to show they are lilies while still studded all over the flag/coa.

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    • I really can't comprehend what're we discussing. From what I remember, it said they were studded all over. No number.

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    • Basically, I was just asking if there's a way we can make the studdied lilies larger (as long as nothing in the books said otherwise).

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    • No there isn't anything but these are better known. Is it truly that much of an issue?

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    • Well, it's more of a display annoyance issue :p As I said earlier, for someone not familiar with the books (basically came here from the games) they won't immediately recognize the studded lilies flag as the games use the 3 lilies, and unfortunately the flag we have is so small as a infoicon, you can't tell they're lilies.

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    • Thats one of main purposes, to also show whats canon. If you look famous flag number of lilies you'll find French monarchy. It think thats where Sapko took inspiration.

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    • Ah, I see. Obviously whoever designed those didn't think to have it recognizable from a distance (yellow on white, oh dear) xD But I'll change it back.

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    • No hard feels, right?

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    • Nah, not at you, just the people who made a poor design choice when it came to real world flags xD

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    • Funny fact about all this is that even Melfi in the novels get confused by the banner, mistaking the lilies for some stains xD

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    • You see? Its even meant to be confusing :'DD

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    • That's definitely a sign to Temeria they need to change their flag xD

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    • btw, a couple things in case you didn't see the conversation with Bizippo: need help classifying kingdoms, duchies, principalities, etc. and rewording articles to reflect that as using "region" is too ambiguous (can mean everything from a forest area to a country/kingom). Also, I'm not sure about the history of Sodden (upper and lower) as one page mentions they were combined back into Sodden but ruled over by Temeria but the other two pages don't mention it.

      One of the ones I'm not sure how to classify is Riverdell. Is it a country or just a forest or what?

      Also, I'm making an edit to the character infobox to make displaying COA easier, however it's going to make all current ones that do display it show some code around. If you find these, let me know or you can fix it by leaving just the file name and remove the rest in the COA field (I made it work like the locations box).

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    • Wouldn't be better for the COA to be right under the nationality flag?

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    • It is... or do you mean another infobox (not the character)?

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    • Something like this.

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    • ohhh, ok, one sec.

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    • Ok, question about Hengfors. Was it a city, kingdom, both, or what? I found this page calling it a city state but then also this one calling it a duchy.

      Also, simliar thing with Ban Ard. Was it officially called Archduchy of Ban Ard or was it a duchy with a city also named Ban Ard?

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    • Sodden got united under Foltest in Peace of Cintra, thats true. Riverdell's region like Pontaria. Wouldn't call it nation. A title of "Archduke of Ban Ard" was held by Henselt but archduchy itself's mentioned nowhere (you can delete the page). You can also delete Duchy of Hengfors, it once existed as a Henfors' city state but info there could very well be in History of city. Duchy page's redunant.

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    • Mhh...maybe archduchy of Ban Ard could stay...if Henselt had that title it means that it exists, Ban Ard city is maybe the chief town of the archduchy.

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    • Ban Ard's Kaedwenian second most important city. I think thats why Henselt got that title. Ciri was duchess of Brugge, even though there's no such duchy.

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    • wait, duchess or princess? Right now her page names her as Princess of Brugge, though it says Brugge is currently a vassal to Temeria.

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    • Ok, to try and make information easier, I created a list of all the known places that were categorized under kingdom, principalities, etc. here. Feel free to make corrections.

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    • I'll look into it after return. However I'm sure Archduchy of Ban Ard and Duchy of Hengfors are redunant. BTW can you merge Mahakams and Brokilons? I once divided it as state/location but now I think it was wrong.

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    • Ok, merging Brokilons, but is it in any particular country or is more like a region that most just avoid? I notice on a Tw2 map they have it broken out like it's its own country.

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    • But why we are still using the fanmade Skellige banner?

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    • @Mechemik Its ancient forest ruled by dryad Eithne. Will you do it with Mahakams too?

      @Bizippo Cause nobody made game-inspired one yet.

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    • Sure, once I fix the pages using the kingdoms template.

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    • There's the one with the Drakkar on the red field...wasn't like that in the game?

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    • Yeah it was. I made COA (though it I am not satisfied) but not flag.

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    • I can throw together a flag version of that one if you want to use that particular design.

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    • And could you also center Drakkar better on COA?

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    • Splendid! Bizippo's gonna love it too :P

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    • I do xD

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    • Good, because I'm not redoing it :p

      btw, do you think we should change the field on the kingdom template to say "current ruler"? For some, it's starting to get unwieldy with past rulers also being listed in the box.

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    • We dunno "current rulers" (16th century was what we established, remember?)

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    • Ok, let me correct that: the most current one we know of xD

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    • Whyever not? #1Mahakamisbetterthan2

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    • whoops, got so wrapped up in other things, forgot Mahakam

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    • Its allright (second page's Mahakam Mountains)

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    • it's fixed (I was working on removing links to that one to get prevent a needless redirect)

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    • Sorry if I demand too much but, isn't there Witch Hunter COA in files?

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    • The one on it's page is the only one we have on file.

      Also, why did you choose to capitalize "Hunter"? In the game, it's always "Witch hunter" and their items also reflect that "Witch hunter's sword" etc.

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    • Sh*t

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    • I meant a better version of it. Current's aside.

      Really? I remember when talking to random ones that they were capitalized. So are they in Gwent. What now?

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    • In all the conversations I've seen, they refer to it lowercase, for example in this video.

      And no, we don't have a better version of the coa.

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    • You seem right. Fine, it can be changed back. IMHO it looks better now but thats that.

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    • Shall I undo?

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    • Poor Bizippo xD

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    • It seems that 1857a left us for gamepedia :'(

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    • Why :( ?

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    • He says its "better" there. :/

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    • Merging the two wikies would be much better and easier for everyone :/

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    • Unfortunately, from what I've been able to gather on past posts, it's not the community they had a problem with but Wikia itself. Censoring nudity, taking up more and more real estate for ads, etc. so for there to even be a remote possibility of merging, a lot would have to change that we don't have control over.

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    • Anyway, as of today  I am fully returned so hit me up if you need something etc. etc. (and Italy was awesome - I wholeheartedly recommend to visit it) :)

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    • Eh eh :D

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    • We don't have a better image for the Human page?

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    • well, you guys can help me with this list. I realized we need a better way to categorize countries but to do that, need to figure out what each one falls under first to reflect accurately on their pages.

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    • So... there is a problem with the ones with notes?

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    • Yes and no. I don't claim any of it's accurate (all the information was pulled from their articles). The notes though help to point out where I saw possible inconsistencies or asking someone else to verify it if possible.

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    • Well...for starters, I think we can consider Brokilon just a forest. It's inhabited just by dryads and there are no cities (just little and wild settlements) or anything which could make that terrain a "state" or a "kingdom".

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    • Also, why the Free Company page redirects to Military Ranks?

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    • Oops, must have misdirected that one. Looking at it, it was meant to go to Adieu's Free Company.

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    • Shouldn't be to Military Units?

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    • Ah, must have been an older page originally. Ok, redirecting it there.

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    • Brokilon has a queen and capital so, even though strange, it is a kingdom or sovereign state at least.

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    • Ok, so how should we define a state? An independent region, not located within a country, etc? Right now there are 2 others labeled as such (Do Blathana and Mahakam).

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    • Mahakam and Dol Blathanna are semi-independent (they have their own aristocracy, monarch, army, and symbolism but they are under Temerian & Aedirnian crowns respectively).

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    • Hmm, looks like we need a more defined word for this. I've looked up a few real word examples similar to their sitatuion (like Greenland and Faroe Islands to Denmark) and essentially they're labeled as "autonomous countries" and  that "Sovereign state" really means the equivalent of country/kingdom (one that's not dependent on another power). But I'm no expert on country definitions, so I'm still looking to see if there's a better word.

      EDIT

      Or maybe it's better to stick to "vassal state"? I know it's an outdated word, but none of the modern day terms work (protectorate means more like the home country provides protection, puppet refers more to the real country in charge is behind the scenes, etc.)

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    • Maan...seen this? Awesome :D https://youtu.be/zgqz8Je7P0s

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    • Yeah it is. To topic: Mahakam is de iure vassal while Dol Blathanna is referred to in books as allod.

      BTW: I have a dilemma. In Wiedźmin: Gra Wyobraźni Order of the White Rose is said to be Kreve cult militant, but in The World of the Witcher by CDPR its secular (without religious allegiance). I checked book where they are and there is nothing about subject. They consider Nenneke's powers superstion but on other hand they respect the Temple. Thoughts?

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    • Mhhh never read that :/

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    • Hmm, no equivalent for allod, so maybe just put it in the "kingdom" category but then specify on its page it's an allod. Also, I see on Dol Blathanna's page it's said it was turned into a duchy from the Peace of Cintra, does that still hold true?

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    • Kinda, its became allod but ofcourse there is no such things as "Allodius of..." so Francesca was given title of Duchess. Could you tell me what you think about Order matter?

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    • I'm really not sure. I was under the impression the White Rose was mildly religious (like the precursor to the Flaming Rose). It would also explain why the group became more religious.

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    • I thought so too, however now I am revising that article and dunno what to write.

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    • OK so I am done on that Order. Can you guys check it for me? Just so there are no mistakes.

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    • Ok, fixed up a few things. Looks good :)

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    • Thx a bunch. Also, do you plan to remove what V9o9 is doing on Army pages? I appreciate his zeal but I think we should keep them simple. At max. add lists of known units.

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    • Yeah, I've been watching him closely and using rollback when needed. I've tried to let them know some of the basic styles we do, but they're just ignoring that to the point Gulfwulf had to protect Geralt's page (they were trying to add the ENTIRE list of Geralt's lovers from everything).

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    • And how'll it be with his edits to Army pages? As I said, wouldn't be better to place list of know units instead of his generic descriptions?

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    • Yes, it would, but I have no knowledge there, that was more of Bizippo's thing.

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    • Jeez, ok we should talk to him, thing is getting worse.

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    • Yeah, that or going to have to do a temp block :/

      Also, do you guys know what kind of government Mahakam uses? Is the Elder more like a king or president type?

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    • I think there's no choice. He's done more bad than good. Mahakam seems a bit communist. There are ancient clans that, from among themselves, chose Elder who rules for life absolutely.

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    • Yeah, I feel he's causing more problems than anything.

      So, like an elective monarchy then?

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    • I'm also in for removal of what he added to military pages.

      Yeah.

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    • Quite a drastic decision though :/

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    • Well, we could try giving him one final notice on useful edits, but don't think that'll do much good. Plus, it'd just be a temp. ban (like maybe a week or two).

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    • I'm for the last chance.

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    • Drastic? What he added in them has no value. Generic descriptions of footsoldier, knight and archers that are same ad on their pages.

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    • I'll give him a warning and link to some of our guidelines, but it doesn't clear up, or he still makes the same mistakes, do a temp. block and I'll also let Drew know on discord.

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    • And pages? :P

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    • Yeah but a person who vandalize or insult should get a ban, I think he just wanted to contribute...

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    • The problem is, if someone causes more issues where we have to go behind them everytime to fix their mistakes, they become more of a problem than a contributor.

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    • Hope he'll listen to the warning then.

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    • Also, I was thinking we should rename Tw3 quest pages back to "The Witcher 3 secondary quests" etc. as they're more of a list than a guide like the other pages.

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    • Mechemik I think you can delete all the other units and the artillery section in Nilfgaardian Army page, as Juraj said there are just descriptions from others pages.

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    • Ok, done.

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    • Bizippo I am no god, I can be mistsken but weren't they? I agree with renaming.

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    • They were indeed, I said that it was ok to delete them.

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    • So I finally cleared up Temerian Dynasty and added few things. I am not sure if this is right COA for infobox, though. If you find any (official, not fanmade) better be so kind and add it in. 

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    • The stone busts from the epilogue of The Witcher 1 perhaps?

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    • Unsure. I meant something like COA but more, family-like? Like those of ancient houses.

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    • Did the person create one for Temeria, like they did for Redania?

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    • What about putting these three CoA in the infobox to make a pyramid?

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      • Yeah he did and it was on page but I removed it. Nice but unofficial.
      •  Would that look good?
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    • Well, technically almost every COA/flag on this wiki are unofficial xD but it's pretty much the only accept "fan art" we allow because otherwise we'd be without any visuals (other than from the games).

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    • Not entirely true. Most of COAs were described in books/dynastic notes and many of those that werent became official after TW3 got realized (they used many until-then-fanart COAs on Ciri family tree).  

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    • Ok, let me correct that: by unofficial we didn't have any actual visual drawing from the books, just descriptions.

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    • But its not unofficial like unofficial if you get me. xD Would "canonical unofficially correct" be term? And what about that Temerian Dynasty image...

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    • Eh, close enough term xD

      Well, we have this image on file.

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    • Hardly a family shield. Brugge, Sodden and Riverdell werent of Temeria until Foltest :/

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    • Something like this?

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    • Well, that's the only one I know of that the person made.

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    • What you guys think about such like Unicorn dynasty has? Are there more like it?

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    • As in like more drawings? Yes, there's quite a few from the Czech site.

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    • What would be your thoughts on using them on family pages? 

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    • If there isn't any other design for them, sure.

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    • I mean we could leave it as it is but wouldnt there be confusion between Temerian Dynasty and Temeria thumbnails?

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    • Probably, but it appears what wiki does is pick the first picture on the page that isn't used very often. I wish there was a better way to tell it what to use as a thumbnail, as sometimes it skips over the infobox and will use another picture instead, or something completely unrelated (like I know one category, it uses a real country's flag for some reason).

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    • Mhm, right. So whats your conclusion on the matter of dynasty coats?

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    • Use ones like the fancy COA first but if there isn't, the drawings are fine, and if it doesn't have either one, the regular COA (if the drawing and COA are drastically different, like style, color, etc. use the regular COA).

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    • Ok, I wanted to run this by you first in case you saw any objections to it. I'm thinking of running the bot to change the dash used in categories to a hypen to make it easier to find a category as there's no way to type a dash without using codes which require a numpad (which most laptops don't have). Thoughts?

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    • I mean, could you translate? :P

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    • Oh how to put it... ok, a dash is like a long hypen and what a lot of our categories currently use (like Images — Characters). Unfortunately, that dash can't be typed like a normal character on a keyboard. In fact, the only way to type it here on the wikia is if the person knows the alt code and has a numpad to enter the code or do what I did and copy and paste the dash, and both are sucky options and makes it harder to put an image in the right category. For example, say I want to put an image in the characters category for HoS, I can try typing in characters in the category box, but if there are more popular ones with "characters" in the name, it won't pop up, so then I have to type out the entire category name by hand, including the dash, which I can only do by copying it from elsewhere first. If it gets changed to a hypen though, which is on a keyboard, it'll make it far easier to put things in categories if they need type it by hand.

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    • Aaah so it's THIS kinda thing. Yeah, of course, I mean it's for better so. 

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    • Yeah, I do a lot of "behind the scenes" fixes to try and make things easier :p Over the summer I was categorizing thousands of images to clear out that area.

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    • That partially explains why your edits counter reaches mine xD

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    • lmao, yep. But now the bot can handle all that (though it might end up surpassing both of us xD )

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    • Why were Landsknecht and Bronibor images from Wiedźmin: Gra Wyobraźni removed?

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    • Those weren't from that game. Those were images created by someone who yes, worked on some official stuff, but those particular images weren't official (basically fan art by a previous worker on the series).

      EDIT

      oh wait, some were. The artist just couldn't remember who he sold the illustrations to xD

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    • Thats just that. Bronibor and Landsknecht arts were used in Gra Wyobraźni. Send you link?

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    • There, updated their file information. There was also another version of the knights.

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    • Really? I didnt noticed. And Bronibor?

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    • Working on it. While I'm at it, I'm renaming them and re-categorizing to better fit.

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    • Also, this is what I was trying to say earlier about revising the Temerian flag. See how they're still studded, but larger and a bit more spaced out?

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    • Mhm, however, as far as I know, that's heraldically incorrect. Won't we wait till TV Series' out? PS: But you can make concept, so we see how it actually looks :P

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    • Well, who knows what the show will even display. So far the games have gone by the 3 lilies, what if the show does the same?

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    • Andrzej Sapkowski consults and one of things he praised in interviews was show's accuracy. Times of canon approaches :D

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    • lol, finally he can settle the flag dispute!

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    • Hope the show will take place during the Northern Wars.

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    • Ok, all categories that used the dash are fixed now.

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    • Nice. Since we talk images - here is something interesting ;)

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    • Well, that confirms those images we saw by the illustrator for the newer Russian covers.

      EDIT

      Also, still need help going over all this list.

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    • In case you dunno, those are albums full of potentional images. I'll look over that list heavily tommorow :)

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    • Yeah, I realized that after I clicked the third one xD

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    • btw, is there anything in the books that confirms the head of goverment for various kingdoms were royal councils? V9o9 is creating these pages for each country but I'm not sure of their status (if they actually were head of governement or just a council, like a team of advisors).

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    • Foltest definetly had council of nobles, commanders, priest and mages. They were his advisors but if King decided A, they couldn't change it to B if you know what I mean. Nothing about other countries.

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    • So they were more of advisors then and not really heads of government. btw, I also did a temp block on them for a few days because they keep making edits that, more often than not, need to be rolled back or fixed up repeatedly.

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    • Certainly not head of government. Will you delete others than Temerian please? They arent confirmed to exist. Anyhow: 

      • Aedirn = Kingdom / part of nothing, strong and independent.
      • Audoen Realm = phrase is never used. I think its content can be moved on Audoens page.
      • Arcsea = It was independent under Audoen but then got absorbed into Redania. As a duchy, presumably.
      • Attre = Duchy and vassal of Cintra (even after it got annexed into the Empire).
      •  Barefield = It kept status of a city state even after becoming part of League.
      • Barony (...) = As far as I know its not official. I am not even sure if we should keep it.
      • Bremervoord = Well, in original its księstwo (principality).
      • Brugge = Still part of Temeria. That title refers to fact that Brugge was vassal of Cintra before death of Calanthe.
      • Caingorn = Its ruling member since King of Caingorn created it.
      • Cintra = It was province until Emhyr wed (Fake) Ciri and she was crowned. Its status was restored then. Officially.
      • Anchor = Same as with La Valette (unofficial, not sure about keeping it).
      • Ruyter = We discussed it already. Same as Anchor.
      • Lowe = We even dunno if it exist. We only have character named Siegfried de Lowe. Deletion candidate this one.
      • Creyden = Yeah this one is League principality. Weell its duke served as Koviri archspy. We dunno how League works.
      • Maribor = Principality. Adalia is referred to as Princess of Maribor in novels.

      Gotta continue late :P

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    • Ok, thanks! I finished updating those (besides the county ones, we can discuss over those later).

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    • I worked a bit on Eskel could you look at it? More precisely, I would like you to change quote but while doing it you can look at other things too ;)

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    • Awww, you didn't like his original quote? :p It's fixed up now.

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    • Thx. I thought that current would look better as main ;) How about 2nd round?:

      • Cidaris = Kingdom / part of nothing, strong and independent.
      • Creigiau = Barony in Malleore, that is part of League and in personal union with Caingorn.
      • Ebbing = Autonomous kingdom dependent on Nilfgaard since 1239.
      • Eidon = Vattier was referred to as Viscount of Eidon several times. That's only thing we know so far.
      • Ellander = Once a duchy and (though still referred to as such in English books) later księstwo (principality).
      • Erlenwald = Just forest it seems from book mentions. Dunno who added principality category.
      • Etolia = Status isn't mentioned so we dunno if its province or, like Ebbing, dependent monarchy.
      • Four Maples = Sounds like settlement in Bremervoord, lands of Castellan(!!!) Budibog (dead during Saga).
      • Garramone = Ruled by Garramone counts and then their progeny, Etcheverrys. Within Temeria.
      • Gemmera = Same as Etolia.
      • Gheso = There is mention of lord (wladyka) of Gheso who rebelled against Empire. No more on status.
      • Hamm = Yeah, Freixenet says in Brokilon that he was baron back there. COAs unofficial and awful, pls remove it 
      • Hengfors = It was a city-state and few other things until Niedamir made it part of Caingorn and capital of League.
      • Hengfors L. = Union of monarchies of former East March. Niedamir was referred to as King of the Hengfors League.
      • Jamurlak = (in official translation Yamurlak actually) Once kingdom, then absorbed into Redania by Radovid IV.
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    • Ok, fixed.

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    • But why is Ebbing as province? It has own royalty, nobility, policies, and administration. Isn't there better category? 

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    • You said we didn't have much info on it and I don't know the names of its rulers. Right now I think the "province" category is being treated more like "lands under Nilfgaard" more than anything atm.

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    • What we know for certain is that they are monarchy, that Nilfgaard generally doesn't meddle in their affairs and that themselves have vassals (Salm & Venendal). Isn't it enough? They are part of Empire as much as Toussaint...

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    • Well even with Toussaint we know it's a vassal state to Nilfgaard. Is that what Ebbing is as well?

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    • Yes, Empire has few such states within.

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    • Ok, I'll mark it under that then.

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    • Also, COA you added to League belongs to Caingorn.

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    • Which one? We have 3 versions running around: the red czech concept, the darker purple (right now on League) and a light purple (on Caingorn).

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    • League has two COAs on page atm. Dark purple's wrong and was replaced with light. Concept's good but point's that none of them belongs to League.

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    • Ok fixed to reflect info from the czech site.

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    • Ehh, would reference be fitting? :P

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    • Probably, but I wasn't sure where else to put it and since we had that heraldry section, I dropped it in there.

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    • Yes I meant that reference to Czech page would be good in that sect.

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    • Picky picky :p ok, fixed it now.

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    • Gawwd xD Section was good I meant reference linking Czech page :DD Sorry for my nitpicking though 

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    • Ohhh xD ok, I'll add the link.

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    • 3rd wave:

      • Kerack = Independent patrimonial monarchy since start of 12th cent. By 16th cent. part of Cidaris.
      • Kovir = Originally Redanian earldom, later region. Apart from when Idi separated it (ended in 1250s).
      • Poviss = Principality. Apart from when Rhyd declared it independent kingdom (ended in 1250s).
      • Kovir and Poviss = Status on page's correct.
      • Liddertal = County around castle, Nilfgaard.
      • Lyria and Rivia = Real union of 2.
      • Mag Turga = No status info.
      • Malleore = YES! + Niedamir's wife was therefrom Princess († by 1267).
      • Metinna = Like Ebbing, autonomous kingdom + sovereign over Maecht.
      • Moen = Falwick's County. He referred to Hereward as his senior, meaning its likely in Ellander. 
      • Narok = No status info but high-born Evermir's mentioned in same breath as two rulers
      • Nazair = Still independent kingdom back in 1232 then later brutally subdued by Nilfgaard into petty province.
      • Nessvelt = Tailles' former County. Mentioned only in TW2.
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    • When you say Kerack became part of Cidaris, do you mean as a territory or union?

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    • Kerack, city located in the north of the kingdom of Cidaris (...) following the inept rule and the extinction of the ruling line, the kingdom dwindled, lost its standing and was eventually annexed and divided among its neighbours. - rough translation

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    • ah, ok then.

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    • Nice. PS: Do you think there's enough for Skellige navbox?

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    • There should be, seeing as there's so few names for even other kingdoms.

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    • So, wanted to run this by you before I looked into it further. I've been looking over having a DPL enabled for the site (dynamic page list). Basically, we could use it to create information from say, all Tw3 potions and create a table with the information we chose. That way, instead of having to update both the list and the individual page, we'd just update the individual and it'd update the list automatically. The downside is DPLs can bog down the server, by how much, I don't know. Plus, it would remove some of our set up. For instance, the oils would be most likely ordered by name so they'd no longer be grouped together, and items that have different versions (like some armor have crafted, common, magic, master, etc. versions) would only reflect one most likely (not sure what it'd do when it detects several infoboxes on one page). I've tried to look over the pages that would most benefit from this and can only name maybe 10, mostly the bombs, oils, and potion pages, along with the ingredients, so it may not be practical.

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    • Sure. Oh and would you please be one to create that navbox?

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    • Sure.

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    • Here it is. I left off the 3 contenders in Tw3 as that depends on player choice and we don't know which is canon.

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    • Good but why don't queens have "Queens"?

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    • Because neither Birna nor Calanthe "inherited" the throne of Skellige, so to speak. At most they could be labeled consorts.

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    • Sounds right. Oh and I think that we should stop using unofficial COA . I mean it looks good but so does Kerack's unof. COA you see?

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    • Ok, look better now?

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    • 👍

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    • Oh, just to let you know, I won't be as active during the day for a little while (I'll probably be checking things at night though) as I've had a schedule change.

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    • That's alright, I had a huge change too so, as you see, I am not that active as before summer.

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    • Hey Juraj, real quick, how did you want to go about incorporating the Hexer information into character pages? Leave it as a header or try to integrate like a story?

      Also, I've permanently banned V9o9 as they kept making the same mistakes like before the temp. ban.

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    • I've no problem with the ban, right decision. To Hexer - most of it is actually absolute non-canon or, in less instances, copy of book story. Thats why I always incorporate its info into Trivia.

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    • Shouldn't Torgeir Tuirseach be moved to Torgeir the Red? I mean... he was definetly Tuirseach but in sources available he only appears as the Red so it would be easier for links too.

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    • I don't know, I'm not familiar with the character, but if he's only ever mentioned under the Red title then yeah, it'd make more sense.

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    • Also, this may not be practical, but perhaps a way to cut down on the increasing number of couple sentence pages, we should have something like a "Minor charcters" list or something where they're all listed together?

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    • I asked you because you run bot, so you could change links. I definetly don't agree characters like Torgeir, Lugos Harelip, Herman are historical etc. Should've their owm pages. I agreed to ranks and unit types lists but I'm strongly against this.

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    • It was just a suggestion as at one point I know you were grumbling about all the stub pages we had :p

      And sure, I can run the bot to change the links over to the appropriate name.

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    • Well because most of them don't contain every info available (Torgeir for example). While I am at it, maybe you could also move Bran from "an Tuirseach" to "Tuirseach"? He's mentioned as such in BaW and only book-known relative, Eist, also has it without an.

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    • Hmm, I'm not sure about Bran. I can see why they did it as his son is also referred to as "an Tuirseach". Perhaps it was an error with Svanrige's name?

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    • Definitely. I mean in books its without an and in BaW too. Clan name is also without an. It seems to me like just CDPR's oversight.

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    • ok, I'll add it to the bot then to change the name over and add a note to Svanrige about the name discrepancy.

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    • Thx. Also - how do you imagine is best vision for Members section on family pages? Like on House of Emreis or Raven?

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    • I prefer it simple, like the House of Raven page, where it just lists the members, as having a lot of descriptions starts to make the page look unwieldy and I think the page should act more like a general info (if they want to learn more, read a character's specific page).

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    • Yes I agree. Another thing's specifically about clans. We've members like Bran, Eist and Svanrige - that's clear. But how about characters like Folan or Skjall, who wear clan colors and are mentioned as members but they aren't "main line"?

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    • Well, we got a couple different ways we've been doing things. One way has been to list leaders separately from others (commonly used on kingdom pages). Another option that we've done a lot on family pages is to do it by gender.

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    • This I know but I came to a conclusion that it is different with clans. For example Folan is and at the same time is not Tuirseach if you get me and I am not sure if others is best solution.

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    • I think we should treat the clan pages like family pages, so listing the members by gender would work best, especially since leadership isn't necessarily hereditary.

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    • Not sure I follow - can you show it on Clan Tuirseach page?

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    • Ok, I did a quick edit to it and added Birna (though she can be removed if you wish).

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    • Aaah now I see. Yeah its good it can stay like that. How would you like 4th list huh :P

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    • 4th list?

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    • I take that as yes :D

      • Northern Border: Doesn't exist, my bad
      • Novigrad: Free City since 1100s + strong Redanian influence
      • Rowan: Duchy centered on Darn Rowan
      • Salm: Sovereign principality informally dependent on Ebbing
      • Slopes: Country that was many realms' part, now Temerian as all Sodden
      • Slodden: After Ekkehard's death Foltest became Prince
      • Strept: Ruler there's officially called Lord Strept, Cintra
      • Talgar: YES!
      • Tarnhann: YES!
      • Upper Sodden: Was Province of Cintra's part
      • Velhad: Unspecified in books, duchy according to The World of the Witcher
      • Venendal: Dominik was named its viscount Jan Calveit
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    • Ok, done. Because Novigrad's weird status, I've gone ahead and added it to the city-state category, but not sure about changing the box. Right now it uses the location infobox, but perhaps it should use the Kingdom one instead and move the location one down to Tw3?

      As for the Slopes, do you mean it was once a kingdom and later became part of Temeria? (principality, region, etc.)

      Sodden: so did it regain its kingdom status or did it become a principality or duchy, etc. under Temeria?

      Strept: principality or just a region?

      Also, I noticed the Venendal page is a disambig. between the county and a division. Was the division actually called "Venendal Division" or just Venendal? May need to rename it if the latter.

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      • I'm really against having 2 boxes on one page. Why move it to TW3? The city appears in other Witcher media as well so it wouldn't make much sense. I feel like you can freely change box to Kingdom. AFAIK only localization will disappear.
      • It was always part of something, Sodden, Cintra, Temeria...
      • They became vassals of Temeria and King Foltest was given a title of Prince.
      • The fief of Cintra, ruled by Lords Strept. That is all info provided.
      • Yeah its actually Venendal Division
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    • Well, main issue with Novigrad is because of it's weird status as a city within a country but is independent. Essentially, if I switched it to the kingdom box, we'd lose the city pic (be moved elsewhere) and all the location bits except the maps. Though granted, that page really needs some fixing, it feels very... disorganized.

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    • Maybe add needed sections to Locationbox?

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    • Ok, so I re-categorized the Slopes as a region based on the understanding it was never a ruled over land like a duchy, vassal, etc. but more like a region that always belong to a kingdom.

      As for Novigrad, looking over the references, do you think we should bother keeping all the ones that reference one of the novels when it comes to the list of buildings and people?

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    • I'm not sure about keeping such lists in general. We've clans, dynasties, titles, organizations... but I think states and cities would look better without those lists. Landmarks and buildings are key though. Also, I agree with you on refs.

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    • Ok, I removed any general building stuff (like ones that just said factories) and had no pages and moved short information into notes like when the merchant in Tw1 is mentioned and the Hexer info. Look better?

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    • Yeah but factories info was kinda essential as it showed city's greatness. Could you bring it back as referenced sentence? 

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    • Ok, I added some notes about it in the first section to discuss the city's large size.

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    • And hat about zoo, lombards and all those numbers? Can't you fit 'em there?

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    • Well, you can add them in if you want, but I don't see the point of mentioning that it's home to pawn shops, guardhouses, restaurants, etc. Gets kind of generic.

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    • OK. Another thing I wanted to discuss with you - wouldn't it make more sense to move Konung to King of the Skellige Isles? Both are right, but seconds more used and would be simpler for links.

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    • It could go either way. I mean, if anything, could just do a redirect from King of the Skellige Isles to link to the correct term, Konung.

      Also, speaking of correct terms, are the Troyden names not translated right? For instance, Anna Trojdenidka, is the "idka" part basically just an add-on for Polish to signify female? Because if so, her name along with a couple others (like Gedovius Trojdenida) need to be changed to "Troyden" as English doesn't use such signifiers.

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    • That could be done but Konung is used only 2 times in game and 1 in Gra Wyobrazni. While King of the Skellige Isles is simpler and appears more often. It's also easier to "understand" (people seeing Konung might not know until clicking, while King(...) is pretty straight).

      Gedovius Troydenid is an official translation as I now googled so yeah, you're right about "idka".

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    • Strange, wish the developers would settle on one consistent term. Do you think they'll possibly address this in the Netflix series so that could give us a better idea?

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    • Konung doesn't come from Sapkowski, he only ever uses król Wysp Skellige. He works with Netflix as you know, so am sure they'll stick to King of the Skellige Isles.

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    • Ok sounds good then. Just redirect Konung to King of the Skellige Isles and if they later go with it, we'll flip them.

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    • Will you do it along with bot please? 

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    • Er, I just noticed a minor issue. Because of Cerys, the title can be king or queen.

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    • Same for Konung/Rhena or Imperator/Imperiatrice, it's common practice for titles to be in male form.

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    • Ok then, working on it.

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    • I might seem like real jerk now but its "King of the Skellige Isles" not "King of Skellige :/

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    • Wait, so what is Skellige officially known as, Skellige, Skellige Isles, or Skellige Islands? Because we'll need to change related pages to reflect that and keep things consistent.

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    • From info in books: "Skellige" refers to kingdom while the "Isles of Skellige" (precisely like that) is archipelago itself.

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    • Ok, so it sounds like Skellige itself could be considered the kingdom/king, and it sounds more like the "Isles of Skellige" just refers to a region (sort of like Canary Islands or the Alps).

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    • Precisely. And the rulers called "King of the Skellige Isles", or Konung a few times.

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    • Well, I'll get around to fixing it in a bit. Someone was being an idiot and added "Konung" as the ruler of every location in Skelliege and as they made several other formatting mistakes, I'm having to edit each one manually.

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    • Lol, that's like saying King Foltest personally owned every second barn or brothel in Temeria :P Anyway, I feel obliged to thank you for all the hard work you are putting in this :) 

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    • Exactly xD But anyways, no problem :)

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    • Since talk's about titles: how do you think would be best to solve likes of "King of Redania" etc?

      PS: Can you look at Birna? I did a few things, but the text feels like it needs a native speaker.

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    • Do you mean as a page or just in general like in infoboxes?

      And sure, I'll look over Birna's page.

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    • As pages + naming.

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    • I think it'd be redundant as we already have Redanian Dynasty and I think a list of monarchs as well (if I didn't delet it).

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    • What I mean that titles "King of Temeria", "of Redania", "of Kaedwen" and "of Aedirn" were all held by single houses throughout history. Do you think you could someone merge it? Lists could be deleted then

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    • Well remember I asked earlier about merging some (for instance Thyssen and Troyden) but you didn't want to, so we left them separate.

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    • No what I have on mind is merging of Redanian Dynasty and List of Redanian monarchs etc with all Four Kingdoms. Or we could do page about general title but that would be weird since Skellige has its own

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    • Ok, make sure I understand this correctly: do you mean merge dynasty and list into one page or merge them into Four Kingdoms?

      Also, if you happen to see some dumbass remark on my message wall, just delete it and ban the anon. Someone yesterday, instead of simply letting me know the link for renamed page hadn't been udpated in the navigation decided they would learn curse words and use them incorrectly in about 5 posts on my wall and one on the other page. Then left another gibberish one today. I've banned both IPs, but I know they change theirs (like V9o9 I'm 99% certain did the other day, as some edits they made were identical to past ones).

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    • What I'm trying to say is about merging Redanian Dynasty + King of Redania (atm List of...), than Temerian Dynasty + King of Temeria and same with Aedirn and Kaedwen as these titles remained in single families AFAIK. Clear?

      Yeah sure, if I happen to notice I'll take necessary steps.

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    • I think it'd be best to combine them into the Dynasty pages to prevent confusion of titles.

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    • So you agree? Problem, however, is that some Nilfgaardian vassals and minor realms also have Kings. Any idea?

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    • Maybe we sould set a limit to the number of rulers before they have a page? For example, if we only know of one or two rulers for a kingdom, it may be better to individually link them than to create another stub page.

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    • 5, lets say?

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    • Sounds good to me

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    • Could you do the moving please?

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    • Sure, though I probably won't be able to do much until tomorrow or the weekend.

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    • OT: Do you know where from is Kaer Trolde's map description? I added it in past just 'cause its on gamepedia :P

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    • I don't know, that seems to be the only past source of that. My guess is either it's from one of the books or was originally in the game but later removed. Third possibility is maybe another witcher book (like the artbooks) but it's not from Tw3's artbook.

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    • Its certainly not from Sapkowski's book and I'm also sure it was never in-game. What with it?

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    • It seems it comes either from Bridge to Kaer Trolde description and from Heroes of Skellige: Grymmdjarr.

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    • If you want, since it's an unofficial description that was really an amalgamation of other text, I can add the brief description from the artbook.

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    • Doesn't it describe the citadel?

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    • citadel?

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    • I didn't want to bother you with another moving but in books, "Kaer Trolde keep" is actually called "Kaer Trolde citadel"

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    • Oh geez xD

      It does, but you could say the current description is, in itself, describing the keep rather than the town.

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    • And thats wrong too. Is there really nothing on artbook about town?

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    • Only in passing (something about how the keep overlooks the village). The developers incorrectly labeled Kaer Trolde as the fortress itself it seems rather than the village (which in game is the harbor).

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    • Another error's that they assumed its village even though I could provide you with word to word quote evidencing its huge harbor town. What do you propose?

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