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  • as the other one reached it's limits, in regards to the throttle thing, it's likely just a wikia part. There are certain settings we don't even control where, if it senses someone makes certain edits in a quick amount of time (a lot of edits at once, renaming a lot in a few minutes, etc.) it will try to "slow down" your edits for a bit. So in short, nothing to worry about, just wikia being... wikia.

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    • Okay cheers, good to know for future reference.

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    • You are free to move House of Emreis to Emreis family if that's the name used in English translation and therefore canon. I named it House back when The Lady of the Lake wasn't translated yet and I could ask no one for an official equivalent :)

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    • Okay thanks, I'll have a look and see what is used and change if needed.

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    • Same with Detmold and anyone else. Books are the highest truth, right?

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    • True indeed! Do you know roughly where the Emreis family/house is mentioned? Having a little trouble finding it. If not I'll just leave it until I can get to my digital edition (easier to Ctl F and find it there than scan through the whole book manually). Also, what in regards to Detmold?

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    • The Lady of the Lake when Geralt is overhearing the discussion of the members of plot to remove Emhyr. They mention say something about him ruing the hopes of Emreises.

      Didn't you some minutes back add a note saying he remains Detmold (without the "h") in English translation?

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    • Okay cheers, it is the Emreis family. I did not change that but thanks for reminding me, it is Detmold in the English version of Time of Contempt, should I rename the page and put Dethmold (the Witcher 2 translation) in akas and just make a note in references?

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    • Also, does the var in the Emreis name just mean of? If so I should also change the var Anahid family to just Anahid family right?

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    • Detmold issue: Undoubtedly.

      Emreis issue: I never thought of var in this way but all thing point towards it. Hmmm. Anahid family it is then.

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    • Mm is it correct to put extinct in male line on Emreis family? He could have had a heir from Fake Ciri.

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    • Yeah, personally I think the whole extinct/extant thing is tricky really, especially if we are working from the very last date in the saga as the "current date"; it is practically impossible to say which, if any, are still around.

      Also, is there a reason that infobox doesn't have an appears in like the character and location ones do?

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    • Oops, sorry about that undo edit on Codringher. I meant to hit back and accidentally hit rollback instead >_<

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    • Bobjosh175 wrote: Yeah, personally I think the whole extinct/extant thing is tricky really, especially if we are working from the very last date in the saga as the "current date"; it is practically impossible to say which, if any, are still around.

      Also, is there a reason that infobox doesn't have an appears in like the character and location ones do?

      Uhm, would it be useful?

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    • Personally, I don't think it would and would be just tricky in itself. Do we say it appears in book/game if just a member is mentioned, or if the house/family itself is mentioned? If the former, that makes it too generalized, as now Emreis would be in practically every book/game just beause Emhyr. If we do the latter, very few actually mention the name itself and so we run into the opposite problem: mentioned so rarely would hardly be useful.

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    • Fair enough, no worries.

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    • @Mechemik do you think it is worth to make another tabel on Nilfgaardian dialect page and move Nilfgaardian words from Elder Speech?

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    • Guys, is there a reason why the Order of the White Rose article uses the old version of the COA and not this one?

      @Bizippo: I actually wanted to suggest this too. I feel like Nilfgaardian, Skellige and Aen Elle words should be moved to their respective pages.

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    • A image like the one in Common Speech may be useful too. There are a lot of Nilfgaardian noblemen talking in Vizima.

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    • I'm not familiar with how the Nilfgaardian dialect is. Is it actually a variation onto itself, or are a lot of the words similar?

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    • Some words are similar but a lot of them are pretty different or have different meaning. For example, "white flame" is "gwendeith" in classic Elder Speech but "deithwen" in Nilfgaardian...

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    • Hmm, that does make it more difficult. I guess for now it couldn't hurt to have a Nilfgaardian dialect page, as long as we make sure to state at the very beginning it is based on the elder speech (thus the similarity).

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    • Uhm we already have it, I'm just talking about having a tabel for words like on Dwarven and Elder Speech.

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    • Oh yeah, that's fine. Odd to have the page and not have a chart on it.

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    • I don’t know if I should completely move the Nilfgaardian words from Gwent as from what we know some of them may be in Elder Speech..

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    • Move them if they are not confirmed. Also, the Nilfgaardian in GWENT seems to be influenced by, strangely, Dwarven considering the "sheyss".

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    • Mh, that’s interesting isn’t it.

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    • Indeed. Maybe there is a Mahakam-esque dwarven realm down there, too?

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    • A book / witcher game set in Nilfgaard core, that’s all I want :DD

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    • Oh dear, now I see why  some of the dates are getting thrown off. I don't know if this is common in other languages, but when one says "fifth day after the new moon" it means it's added onto the new moon's date. So if the 1st was new moon, saying it's the fifth day after would make it the 6th. However, in this translation, a sentence clearly reads that the fifth day after the new moon is the 5th of the month. Is it common in the Polish language to do this way of counting?

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    • Before I answer your question regarding Polish: doesn't this have to do anything with the fact that the Human calendar in the world of the witcher counts days of the month from the new moon?

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    • Yes and no. The problem is that, in English, if we say it's the X number of days after a certain day (full moon, new moon, or specific date) we count starting with the day after the actual mentioned day. So if I say '3 days after the 10th" it means the 13. If the full moon is on a 19th and I say "4 days after the full moon" it means the 23rd. But the translations are off by a day.

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    • Also, Bizippo, might want to double-check the books. I was under the impression only Nilfgaardian words would be put on the dialect page. Words like "creasa" are part of the Elder Speech (unless the elves in the north are now also using Nilfgaardian dialect).

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    • As you see creasa is also used by Nilfgaardians (Shilard and Assire dialogue in Tw2).

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      • Oh, alright. We in Slovakia, Poland and Czech Republic do it a bit different. If it's 18th and there's something we have to day in 3 days time we count from 18th (the days thus being 18, 19 and 20).
      • The Nilfgaardian originates from the Elder Speech therefore it makes sense they share much of vocabulary.
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    • Indeed. Mm, can we assume that Nazairi talk Nilfgaardian then since they use those swears in Blood and Wine?

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    • Oh dear god, that explains a lot on why some of the dates weren't adding up right but now throws it all off because I can't tell if the English translator knew of this (some of the dates are merely described as "2 days earlier/later"). So for convience, I'm just going to assume to count one less day if new/full moon is mentioned.

      As for the Nilfgaardian dialect, I thought the page was more to list words unique to Nilfgaardian dialect, not to list words also in Elder Speech.

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    • @Mechemik: Hah, well, I thought it to be normal but apparently can be rather confusing for foreigners. Strange though that your translator did not bother to fix it. He lives in Warsaw so probably knows...

      @Bizippo: I am having hard time understanding why CDPR has Nazairians using Nilfgaardian. Makes no sense to me at all, especially since they hate being occupated.

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    • I think after they got conquered they were forced to learn the language.. how many years Nazair has been under Nilfgaardian rule?

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    • Around twenty in 1268, give or take a few. I don't think Nilfgaard would force language or religion but alas, we probably have no better explanation.

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    • So those mercenaries might have been born after annexation.. that would explain right? Nilfgaard doesn’t force? Mmm, that’s quite odd to me for a country that use slavery.

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    • At least in CD Project verse I think they do. The World of the Witcher, at least, states that the provinces were forced to adopt the Great Sun and certain principles of Nilfgaardian culture. The quote; "The peoples under the dominion of the empire were also expected to learn its official language and adopt elements of the victors' culture." Can't remember if this is ever actually referenced in game but it's been a long time since I played them.

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    • Well same thing happened within Roman Empire... uhhh good time when my country counted something.

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    • Also, where are we getting the year for the rebellions in Metinna, Ebbing, etc. If I'm reading it right, it sounds like all of it happened at least a year prior to 1267, as Ciri is with the rats shortly after Lammas (which definitely doesn't fit in the timeline with the prefects leaving them be, then trying to install moles, etc.).

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    • In the books, there are parts of the Empire still using Common, their own currencies and deities. However, now that I think of it, those are vassals (Ebbing, Metinna, Cintra, Toussaint etc.) and not provinces. Nazair was a province so... alright guys, I agree with you.

      BTW: Roman Empire was amazing! I am a big history enthusiast, hoping to one day become professional, and Roman eras are something I can never get enough of. I've been 3 times to Italy and loved it everytime.

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    • Yeah, tho behind all that magnificence there were slaughterings of whole populations, destruction of their culture and, indeed, slavery. Nilfgaard and RE aren’t much different.

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    • I know what was behind it but none of the great civilizations was flawless. The one we have today is certainly not as well. Regarding the Nazair thing, shouldn't there be a BaW reference? As it isn't from the books.

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    • Yeah adding right away... uhm... so you do accept this reasoning even for other provinces? Geso, Gemmera, Vicovaro..

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    • Vicovaro is a vassal and Geso and Gemmera might be too. We don't know. In that case they would use Nilfgaardian as secondary language, if at all. Toussaintois for example don't seem to know it...

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    • That ref doesn't need to be so elaborate because there's already a chunk of text saying it in Trivia. Just BaW ;)

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    • I think we can be sure with Vicovaro, both Ceallach and Cahir had conversations with Emhyr.

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    • Oh, yeah, correct. Assire conversed with him (and Shilard) too. I wonder what language did lands like Etolia and Vicovaro, far from North and Nilfgaard alike, use before they were conquered.

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    • Would you exclude that those countries used a Elder Speech variant as well even before Nilfgaard conquered them?

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    • Nah I wouldn't, thats actually really possible. It's just that we already have elves, dryads, naiads, merpeople, Nilfgaardians, Skelligers and even Zerrikanians using some sort of Elder Speech so I'd hope for some more diversity you know.

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    • Even Zerrikanans? Now that's new to me..

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    • We do even have Ofieri speak btw, are there enough info to make a page?

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    • The only word in Zerrikanian we know is "vessekheal", meaning cheers. It's probably a typo tho and was meant to be "vessekhael" like the Elder Speech "hael". Moreover, Gra Wyobrazni calls Zerrikanian dialect and says it's based on the elven language.

      I think. We know more on Ofieri from HoS than on Gnomish Speech from books hah.

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    • I'll see what I can do, perhaps even Zerrikanian dialect page is worth then?

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    • Yea... Nilfgaardian words are gonna stay on the Elder Speech?

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    • Do you mind em?

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    • Btw, I know in canon is called Ofir but can't we just call that page Ofier? We have now Ofier categories, templates...

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    • Kind off. It doesn't makes much sense to have a page about Nilfgaardian then, its description might as well be summed up on ES page (an idea I'm not really fan of).

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    • Thing is that those words may as well be from Elder Speech, you see what I mean? I think you missed my message on Ofier btw.

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    • I do. They could be from Dwarven Speech too. Or any other since all languages from different language families and groups influence each other at all time. This is a very subjective space man...

      Problem is CDPR themselves aren't consistent. They use Ofir in The World of the Witcher and the vanilla game while Ofier in expansions.

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      • I guess it's better to keep them there with Nilfgaardian dialect in brackets, that wouldn't do any harm imo.
      • HoS is more popular than World of the Witcher or even books though, since if I remember right it appears in only one page.
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    • I think book names always have to take precedence over game ones, even if it's only mentioned on the one occasion.

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      • I think you didn't quite read what I wrote. There are two problems. 1. We don't know for sure if all those word are Elder Speech and 2. leaving it there makes the Nilfgaardian dialect page redundant, almost useless.
      • Just one page, true, but Ofir being Ofir has it's significance. Mr Andrzej named the land after mysterious and rich African kingdom allied to King Solomon, mentioned in Bible. On the other hand, Ofier doesn't mean anything...
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      • Ok I'll remove them.
      • Then you should convert all Ofieri stuff into Ofiri, because right now it looks very confusing imo, I mean look at that Ofir Kingdom infobox.
      • Are they confirmed to be Zerrikanian dialect and Ofiri/Ofie Speech?
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      • Hope you aren't upset about it.
      • Would love to but I left home yesterday and gonna return in two weeks, meaning that until then I won't be able to do anything beyond discussing.
      • Zerrikanian dialect and Ofiri tongue (well Ofieri but you know).
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    • I'm not, do you have any info on Zerrikanian dialect? I know few about it.

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    • It differs greatly from the classic Elder Speech. Zerrikanian dialect is the sole language known to ordinary Zerrikanians. Only priestesses and free warriors (e.g. Téa and Véa) learn the Common Tongue. -- that much is said in Gra

      Books contain just "vessekheal" and the fact that they make zefhar bows in Zerrikania confirms they use Elder Runes as writing system.

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    • And is vessekheal a greeting?

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    • A toast like "to your health" or "cheers" or other such.

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    • I can't remember, but does it actually state anywhere in the games or books that Ofir's ruler is a king? Why I ask is because even if the son is called a prince, it doesn't mean the ruler is actually a king/queen (culd be duke for instance).

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    • You can see him mentioned in the phrases on Ofiri tongue page.

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    • Oh wow, where'd you get those translations? My game only shows the ofir language in subtitles.

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    • Phelippe Calagrande actually translate it for you.

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    • Hmm, must have missed that part. Oh well.

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    • >"Didn't you some minutes back add a note saying he remains Detmold (without the "h") in English translation?"

      Could anyone check Iorweth/Iorveth and Tancarville?

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    • Mine's Iorweth but my books are not english.

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    • Yes, Detmold is spelled like that in the English translations. Only the English games put it as "Dethmold". Tancarville spelled same in books, and Iorweth is spelled like that in the books. So really, it's just in the games where they changed them around.

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    • @Mechemik could you manage to get a picture of Nilfgaardians talking like the one in Common Speech page?

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    • Sure. Want soldiers or nobles? (as they're the only types of Nilfgaardians in the game).

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    • Ehhh don’t know, which one would be better? I think soldiers because they’re more recognizable but I'm very conflicted.

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    • Yeah, was thinking that too.

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    • Are you thinking however on high rank soldiers with plate armor or lower?

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    • Just whereever there's a group that clearly shows the Nilfgaardian sun on their armor.

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    • Perhaps in Vizima then..

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    • @Mechemik: Sorry but if it's Iorweth in books then why it isn't so here as well? I'm confused because some pages get moved and some don't...

      Bizippo: I'm indiscribably glad to see all those edits you recently did. Can I just have few small remarks?

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    • Sure.

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      • Phakbarthojl should be with small "p"
      • I would change Economy's wording a bit. Countries overseas are mentioned to trade with the North in the books as well, in Cidaris, Gors Velen and Novigrad at least.
      • Why is "Monster of the..." section it's own thing now and not part of history?
      • Gra actually does say Zerrikanian is a dialect of Elder Speech, just enormously different from original.
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      • But it's the name of a ship.
      • That's first time we see Ofieris in continent tho, even in books.
      • Because imo it doesn't have anything to do with history of the country.
      • What's the matter?
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    • @Juraj: it's just to do with us finding which characters are like that. We only recently corrected Detmold's, and he had a bigger part in the books than Iorweth.

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    • Do we have any confirmed years for certain events, like when Calanthe was born, when Pavetta turned 15, etc.? I've run into an issue from Dynastic Descriptions that would put the fall of Cintra in 1265 instead of 1263, so either he got the years mixed up (again) or all our current information on them is off by 2 years.

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      • Looks like no problem for mistle or milva on ES...
      • It's the first we see them but not first time they are there to trade. In the "Eternal Flame", there's a Zangvebarian factor in Novigrad called Ther Lukokian. Latter on in the saga we learn that the Seaside Bazaar of Cidaris offers goods from lands beyond the seas (i.e. Zangvebar and Ofir). Gors Velen port is full of such merchants too, plus people like dark-skinned Leila.
      • Agree. I don't see any reason to keep it there at all.
      • You wrote seem twice so I assumed you're in doubt.
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      • Sorry I didn't understand your first point.
      • I'll see what I can do on economy tomorrow.
      • Thing is that only GRA confirms it while books don't say anything about it. There is that vesskheal thing that looks like hael indeed but as it's just a speculation I think we should keep "seems".
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      • In the Elder Speech word milva means red kite, just like in Ofiri phakbarthojl is albatross. These are just normal words for commmon birds.
      • Did I convince you?
      • Yea and that's why I think it worth mentioning Zerrikanians use Elder Runes, the elven alphabet, since it can serve as another evidence.
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      • I wish you didn’t because now it will be a pain to change that paragraph, do you have some ideas on how should I rewrite it?
      • Do you have a source for that Elder runes thing?
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      • Maybe mention Cidaris' Seaside Bazaar, Novigrad and Gors Velen as martime trading hubs where merchant from beyond the seas are known to trade but how this is still rather rare due to distance? Something along those lines.
      • BoF, says Zerrikanians are famed for making zefhar, unique kind of bow made in shape of an Elder rune.
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    • So I take it we don't actually have a confirmed year when actual battles and Cintra fell then?

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    • No, but by working backwards from the years provided (such as Meve's observation that in 1268 it has been five years since Cintra was first invaded and Calanthe's suicide) I'd say that Autumn 1263 for the Battle of Marnadal and the fall of Cintra. 

      Again I feel we may have a bit of an issue with the dates;

      We know in Meve's example it is April, and the fall of Cintra took place around the autumn, if she says five years ago she could be refering to 1268 being the fifth year from 1263 (in which case it would probably be closer to 4.5 years) or 1268 from 1262 (in which case it would probably be closer to 5.5 years). Personally, I'd be inclined to believe it is more likely to be the former in this case, but this issue may apply to all dates; e.g. "three years ago" may mean 2.5 to 3.5.

      Either way there seems to be discrepancies over this date throughout the Saga. I have, however, noticed that a lot of these said dates are in reference to the Second Battle of Sodden, and I don't believe there was anything to suggest that it didn't happen a year after the initial conflicts (much like Brenna).

      As for Dynastic Descriptions, there is so much information in that that directly contradicts what he himself wrote in the Saga it's just silly. Personally, I've just taken to adopting the areas that fit into the already established timeline and ignoring the glaring parts that do not (instead taking the Saga canon counterparts). I guess it's a little different on the wiki, but if you want to make note of all the dates in Dynastic Descriptions on the timeline I feel there is going to be a lot of (inconsistent with dates from the Saga) there. 

      Regarding Pavetta's age, Calanthe's ect. if you take the basis of Emhyr himself stating that in 1268 it has been 16 years since Pavetta's 15th, and Vissegerd corroborating this by saying it has been 15 years in 1267, that can be used as a fairly solid basis of events working back from 1268.

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    • Case in point of one glaring inconsistency of DD; Ciri being 7 when Duny and Pavetta disappeared. In the books, Yennefer states in 1267 that it has been 10 years since Crach gave the news (Ciri couldn't have been 7 then, by our reckoning she'd only be about 3/4 depending on when in the year it took place, either way 7 is too old for later events). This is supported by Geralt visiting Cintra just after she turns 6, and Mousesack informs him that Duny and Pavetta are already dead by that point.

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    • Also, just to check, the family of four Ciri mentions living with in Kagen is Yurga, Goldencheeks, Nadbor and Sulik right? I was having a little trouble understanding where exactly Yurga said he lived. Couldn't really make out if his home was in Sodden or in Riverdell/Transriver.

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    • Yeah, it's a time given in Dynastic that throws it all off. Specifically, him stating that Calanthe and Eist were married for 13 years. If you work backwards from that, either everything related to them is off by 2 years (Calanthe would then be born in 1216, not 1218), or the years they were married is wrong, or the fall of Cintra happened 2 years later, around 1265 (unlikely).

      I'd have to go back and check on that. That was confusing, and I've kinda given up trying to guess where locations are related to the rest.

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    • Yeah but if you work from that, Pavetta's age would change and by association Ciri's, which would potentially contradict every date provided in the books on account of one date in DD. It's annoying as hell but most of DD just works against the books instead of with them. 

      Kagen is in Riverdell/Transriver, I just couldn't really work out if Yurga's home was there or in Sodden. I'm presuming this family in question was Yurga's as all mentions of where Ciri was post-invasion seem to suggest that she didn't stay with another family prior to Geralt finding her at Yurga's, she was with a group of fugitives then the druids of Angren from whom Goldencheeks took her in.

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    • @Mechemik: Why did you write "in the far future" into those articles? I remember we agreed back in 2017 to consider 1520s as the current present. Nimue traveled to Aretuza in 1373 (according to Season of Storms) so even if her conversations with Condwiramurs happened around 1425 it would still be past tense.

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    • I don't have Season os Storms, so I don't know when she actuallly worked with Condwiramurs. But as ever, you're free to add years to them.

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    • I am free but not able to till the end of next week, maybe a bit longer. Thus I thought it enough to let you know what's wrong since, after all, you added the paragraph. Are you OK with that?

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    • I'm kind of focusing right now on just trying to get info added in (got way too many bookmarks in my kindle atm) so not really. But if you just keep a mark of the pages, you can add the years in when you have time.

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    • Oh I see. Your recent edit are pretty big that's true. Also, please pardon me for that Season of Storms I forgot it isn't out in English yet.

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    • Yeah, we've only had to wait 5 years... assuming it's not delayed this month xD

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    • Hah. I Wonder what's wrong with your translator and/or publisher.

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    • Perhaps fanmade translations already exist, they may not be official but they’re better than a kick on the teeth.

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    • @Mechemik: would you possibly be able to extract the texture of an Ofiri round shield in a fashion similiar to the Redanian Free Company escutcheon, please? I'm talking with SMiki about it and the possibility of an SVG emblem based on the shield.

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    • PogChamp

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    • Slight problem with the texture of that shield: because it's perfectly symmetrical, the developers only made 1/4 of the circle. I don't know how much you know about UVs when it comes to 3D modeling, so I'll try to keep it basic: it'd need to be stitched together, figuring out where it fits on each side to complete the circle, and further more, stitch together the inside circle with the details and blue spheres (was also separated into a quarter).

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    • Oh, so it's this kind of issue. Hmmm. We need it mainly because there are many ornaments and tiny details on the shield so a simple screenshot or cut-out, affected by the angle and lighting, doesn't suffice. Do you have any idea apart from using the texture?

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    • Maybe, but I'd have to load that point of the game to see. If they have the shields equipped after the shipwreck, I can try to grab a better screenshot.

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    • They have and they are also displayed among Dulla's goods. Maybe you could even get a better one for Aamad and Annar?

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    • Sure, I can check those and see. I might have a playthrough where I left them alone to camp there.

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    • Ok, here's one I got.

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    • Great job!

      PS: I think even if the emblem turns out too hard to make we can use this instead, provided y'all agree.

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    • Wow that texture is beautiful :O Can we start using it even right now?

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    • @Bizippo: After a bit of talk with Miki, we reached a conclusion that we aren't able to create anything better looking. To sum it all up – yes!

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    • How did Third Lormark war end btw?

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    • Well, the third one is the one that takes place during The Witcher 2 so its outcome depends on the side chosen by Geralt/player.

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    • Ugh.. great >.<

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    • You plan to make that article?

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    • I do though this period I’m quite lazy and this multiple endings thing won’t help for sure.

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    • You have nowhere to hurry. Nobody's pushing you so take it easy and do it when you feel like it. Good god, I just can't get enough of this Ofiri shield it just looks too amazing... 

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    • Yeah, a bit too sophisticated to be a CoA but better than nothing.

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    • Didn't you say you like it and want to use it?

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    • I did, why?

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    • Oh, ehm, eee sorry. I wrongly interpreted your previous message.

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    • I meant that I doubt that it’s the official CoA of Ofir, still very good tho.

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    • Yea. You know, I actually doubt Ofir uses a classical COAs like monarchies on the continent. They have a different culture so they probably use emblems or another type of symbols.

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    • Yeah, I doubt it's the actual COAs but eh, something for now.

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    • Is there a reason why Smiki's CoA look blurry in infobox while they look more clear alone?

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    • example?

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      • this and this.
      • Btw Mechemik, dunno why but whenever someone leave a message on your wall I get a notification, even if I never wrote on that thread...
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    • Hmm, my only guess is that the smaller details are more squished due to being a smaller size.

      Are you by chance following my message wall to get that? If you go to my message wall itself, look at the bottom bar (the dark gray thing) and see if it says "following" on the far left text. If it is, click it and you should get a notice at the top that says you're no longer following me and the text on the bottom should change to "follow".

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    • Oh that was the problem then, I actually don’t remember if I ever clicked it.

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    • So I looked into expanding that Witcher series template. Think it looks better now and more complete.

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    • Nice, it really is more wholesome now.

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    • So it's a sure thing now, I'll be back on saturday. Just thought to let you know.

      Another thing is a question: didn't you ask about finishing something about kingdoms? I don't clearly remember what it was just that I read it but didn't reply because of the discussion I had with Bizippo back then.

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    • Could the category Cities be renamed to Settlements or something similar? A large percentage of the pages in that category are towns and villages after all. 

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    • But there is a Villages category.

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    • Fair enough, didn't see that. Must just be a case of miscategorisation.

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    • That does bring into question though, should we just combine cities and villages into settlements?

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    • That would be overkill imo.

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    • Please explain, just curious on why (like, do people actually care to have a difference between the two categories? Do people actually use them?)

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    • Mixing cities and village sounds bad to me, settlement reminds me of paleolithic huts village lol. And what’s the problem in having two categories? It would be like mixing kingdoms, baronies, duchies and calling them lands, or at least this is what I think.

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    • I personally would prefer for them to be combined. I think there are plenty where it is very difficult to distinguish whether it is a city, town or village. 

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    • Also my mistake regarding the baron thing, that was just because the lord is specifically called Baron of Tridam.

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    • Bobjosh175 wrote: Also my mistake regarding the baron thing, that was just because the lord is specifically called Baron of Tridam.

      Are we sure that Tridam is the capital city of a plausible Barony of Tridam?

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    • Kingdoms, duchies, etc. are a bit different though, as they're more well defined in the books and games. Cities and villages though, as Bobjosh pointed out, are very ambiguious, even in the books and by our own standards (usually defined by a certain number in population). Plus, "village" in itself is very paleolithic xD

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    • Well Tridam is a good case in point actually. From what I recollect it was never explicitly stated what it actually is. 

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    • I see but it wouldn’t be right to put settlement under locations that are specified to be towns / cities and such... I may agree with creating settlements category to put under unsure locations, what do you guys think?

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    • Well all three (city, town and village) are names of settlements by their very definition, so it wouldn't be incorrect. I do agree that if it is actually specified then it needs mentioning, but more often than not I don't think it really is. 

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    • As for Tridam, there is no mention it lies in Poviss btw.

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    • Oh yes, we'd still mention what it is specifically on the city/town/village page, but just having a "settlements" category would make it easier to just say "hey, people live here" type.

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    • SMiki55 wrote: As for Tridam, there is no mention it lies in Poviss btw.

      https://m.imgur.com/a/1Frr9ri Cdpr put it there in Gwent: The Witcher Card Game. Edit: even though now that I see that’s more Kovir... it wasn’t me who put Poviss however on Tridam page.

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    • I'd still wait for Juraj opinion tho..

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    • Just to clarify, if a location is in a certain town/city/whatever, where in the infobox is that being listed? For a location in Oxenfurt for example, if country is Redania, would Oxenfurt be in the region or location info field? Or another example, the places in Gors Velen, if country is Temeria, would Gors Velen be region or location?

      I've seen it listed both ways and feel like there should be some standard across all, just wanted to check what that is. 

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    • I'd treat Oxenfurt as the region. The idea when I originally added those fields was that "location" would be a specific location or relation to something else. For example "just east of the harbor" or "next to Shani's clinic". However, for huge lands (like Nilfgaardian Empire) it's more acceptable to use the vassal state/duchy, etc. in the "country" box.

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    • Yeah I thought that may have been the case, I presume with places like the market in Gors Velen, where the exact street is specified, that would be in location and Gors Velen in the region.

      The only area I can think of which may cause an issue with this is when a place is inside the realm of an actual region of land (such as Gustfields or Arcsea) but also within a specific city or town. Should they just both go in the region? Like Novigrad Gate, for example, if the country = Redania and the location = its precise location in the city, should region = Gustfields-break-Oxenfurt?

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    • Well, Novigrad Gate is technically the part leading into Oxenfurt, so its ok to just put Oxenfurt down as the region. I'd prefer to avoid having multiple "regions" down (though you could try and clarify in game what region pops up when you come across the gate).

      Oh, almost forgot, districts within a city are fine to add next to the city's name in the "region" field.

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    • @Mechemik: I think maybe there should be one more field because with some places within Nilfgaard, like the Arena in Clermont, they have specified place/city/region and country and atop of that, overlord. Someone (the Empire) who is above the Ebbinger Kings themselves. BTW did you read my yesterday message?

      @Bizippo: What is it I'm to comment? xD Got a bit lost here...

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    • @Juraj: err, which message? Kinda got lost. Also, Bizippo means for you to add your input on whether or not we should combine the "cities" and "villages" categories into just one (settlements).

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    • @Mechemik: Just like me. Here you go, the significant part is in the second half.

      As for this cities/villages dispute I see what Bizippo means but I also know why you and Josh root for a single category. If I am to decide, however, I think we should go with settlements. The other option is dividing it completely like with countries so there would be categories for hamlets and towns which would, in the end, result in a large number of categories with not many pages in them.

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    • Oh yes, kingdoms thing. See my sandbox, the table at the very top needs input on.

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      • Mercey = Maybe nonexistent. Only known mention is of Marquess de Mercey, Redania's Minister of Finance in 1267.
      • Poviss = Baldwin Thyssen entry in Genealogies calls it specifically Principality of Poviss.
      • Saskia's Free State = According to the comic it was a de jure democracy. De facto everyone revered Saskia and listened exclusively to her (Barclay was upset about it but died before solving anything). Regardless of the decisions made, the state ceases to exist by the end of 1271 and Vergen is burnt to the ground by Nilfgaard.

      Only these? I kinda enjoy doing this :D

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    • Bizippo wrote: Are we sure that Tridam is the capital city of a plausible Barony of Tridam?

      Juraj did you see this?

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    • For Tridam, we only know it lies close to some river. That Gwent location is suprisingly not bad, but it should be located even closer to Braa. It could be adjacent to some un-drawn tributary though, like Crea.

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    • @Juraj: for now. There's one other I forgot about, what about Emblonia?

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    • @Bizippo: I would so like to say yes but remember Lutz? The guy was called the Baron of Tyffi and it later turned out Tyffi is a city. Unless there is also a Barony of Tyffi...

      @Mechemik: Oh yeah. It was a Kingdom whose measly monarchs drove it into an abyss. Partitioned by a treaty between Temeria and Redania signed in 1195.

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    • Well that's the thing.. do you know of any baron without a barony? :/

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    • I truly do not. Are you sure about creating articles on things we know so little about tho? Like the Barony of Tyffi and Barony of Tridam would include only the facts that may very well be placed in Tyffi and Tridam articles.

      PS: The Magne article should include a note similar to the one on its COA file page, describing how we assume the land exists solely based on the existence of Venendal and Venendal Division. Some fans might be confused why they never heard about this country before.

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      • Mh, you right.
      • Right away, can you check also my message on Smiki's wall about that Korath thing and tell me what do you think?
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    • I think you missed my point with the note hah. I and SMiki assume that Magne really exists because Venendal Division also took its name from Venendal, a real place. As for Korath, yeah sure makes sense.

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    • But in this case Magne (place) was never mentioned, right? It’s a total different thing here.

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    • Will try it again. When I agreed with the article and SMiki created the COA we did it under the assumptiob that Magne Division took it's name from an already existing land because, as we learn from The Tower their collegues from Venendal Division did... Do you understand or does it feel like I'm repeating myself?

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    • The problem is, do we know if it's a land or simply something like a city/town?

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    • >"do we know if it's a land or simply something like a city/town?"

      (I've actually tried to suggest sth like this in case of Daerlan article xD)

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    • Juraj103 wrote: Will try it again. When I agreed with the article and SMiki created the COA we did it under the assumptiob that Magne Division took it's name from an already existing land because, as we learn from The Tower their collegues from Venendal Division did... Do you understand or does it feel like I'm repeating myself?

      Well, I'm feeling quite a retarded right now, perhaps I'm too tired. So do you want me to delete all that stuff I wrote in ref and write that the existence of Magne is based off the fact that even Venendal is based on Venndal Division? If I didn’t understand again I think I should go to bed and try again tomorrow xD

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    • Mechemik wrote: The problem is, do we know if it's a land or simply something like a city/town?

      Brigades and Divisions usually come from regions rather than cities tho (2nd Vicovaro Brigade, Venendal Division)... why would Daerlan and Magne be a exception? Also, in books Daerlanian demonym appear... do city but Novigrad usually have a demonym?

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    • @Mechemik & SMiki55: Fair point. Daerlan can be changed to reflect this as well.

      @Bizippo: Uhm you didn't understand only very very slightly :D Venendal isn't based on Venendal Division, it's a confirmed county where Houvenaghel was viscount. Existence of Magne is based on the assumption that Magne Division did the same as Venendal Division --> named itself after real place, their home.

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    • So to sum up, majority agree to combine cities and villages?

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    • Majority does. Now we should also come to final conclusions on Daerlan, Magne, and Tridam topics.

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    • Ehrm... Mechemik? Bizippo?

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    • I would rather merge cities with fortresses (many cities are walled, many fortresses act as capitals) than with settlements (the difference is far more visible)

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    • I think he was asking more on whatever conversation you guys were having on Daerlan, Magne, and Tridam xD

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    • Final choice is on you.

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    • On who?

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    • You..

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    • Regarding Magne or Daerlan or Tridam? OR better yet all three...

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    • I actually don't even remember what the problem was about, had quite a night, but I guess all three.

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    • OK then:

      • Tridam= The Poviss bit is unconfirmed and should be removed or replaced. You can mention the barony but for now, we don't need a separate page for it.
      • Daerlan = The page should be changed to reflect the fact we are not sure what type of place it is.
      • Magne= Same as Daerlan plus edit the note to say that the existence of Magne is based on the assumption that Magne Division, much like Venendal Division, took its name from some region.

      BTW: After reading I realized that not only Empire has provinces. For example, Redania has some too like the Riverfront.

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    • Also Temeria with the other part of Emblonia and Velen.

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    • @Josh: Indeed. Speaking of Emblonia, I heard tomorrow Season of Storms translation officially comes out in your language.

      @Bizippo: Those are the things, aren't they?

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    • I guess so.

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    • ?

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    • What's the matter?

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    • Just want to know if I helped you find the definitive solutions to these three matters...

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    • Thought you wanted to change it now that you returned but ok, will do it in a moment.

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    • And I still don't understand what do I have to write on Daerlan, plus why Gwent location of Tridam can't be confirmed?

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    • Hah, and I thought that because those are your pages you would like to do the edits xDD

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    • Nah, don't care much about credits, I think you missed a message of mine btw.

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    • Well I do. Anyway, regarding Daerlan there was an interesting fact pointed out by Mechemik and Miki are we sure its a land (and not a city, valley or otherwise)?

      As for GWENT, does it actually place Tridam within Poviss?

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    • Bizippo wrote:

      Mechemik wrote: The problem is, do we know if it's a land or simply something like a city/town?

      Brigades and Divisions usually come from regions rather than cities tho (2nd Vicovaro Brigade, Venendal Division)... why would Daerlan and Magne be a exception? Also, in books Daerlanian demonym appear... do city but Novigrad usually have a demonym?

      As for Tridam, you saw that map didn't you?

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    • Viroleda is another exemplary city when we talk about demonyms. However, I admit that when Cahir says Daerlanian in the books it sounds more like he mentions nationality but you know we don't really have it confirmed. What would you propose?

      I did but the text under the quest title says "The forests near Malleore, Saovine 1228" so I think the indicator on the map is supposed to show those forests.

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    • I think we are far far away from a conclusion on this topic. I am to keep Daerlan and Magne as provinces/lands anyway.

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    • @Juraj It's the 22nd here in England, have it preordered though. I've read the English fan translation a while ago and of the ones I've read so far they're pretty good and don't miss too much, but there are always little things so I'm looking forward to reading it again. I know there are quite a few smaller characters without pages as of yet, so should be able to add some of them soon. And finally find out the demonym for Kerack if it is mentioned, hah. 

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    • Juraj103
      Juraj103 removed this reply because:
      Wrong wiki, I'm probably overworked...
      15:23, May 20, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • @Josh: I'm so happy to hear this. Maybe you could also keep an eye on anything Emblonia? The demonym, history, landmarks, towns and other similar stuff. This former kingdom appears solely in SoS so I think it shouldn't be too hard for us to cover here. I added what I could but since we're an official English wiki, some things are better left to those who can... phrase them better (?)

      @Bizippo: Hmmm so what now.

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    • I told mine, now you.

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    • I can't really understand your problem with changing "land" to "place" until they are confirmed to be countries. And they probably will quite soon because Miki plans to talk with Sapkowski in a near future.

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    • Oh well.

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    • Three little bits about Magne if I may:

      • note
      • Currently pages meaning the division link to place
      • GWENT may not be language indicator. After all, Venendalis shout in Nilfgaardian even though Ebbing talks Common...
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    • I didn't understand your first and second point.

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    • You know, we discussed the note and how it should be saying that the existence of Magne is based on the assumption that Magne Division, much like Venendal Division, took its name from some region.

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    • Bizippo
      Bizippo removed this reply because:
      H
      17:19, May 20, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Does it really matter even if page clearly say that soldiers from Magne division come from Magne?

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    • Bah fine. The last thing is: Magne used to refer to the division only so many pages now erroneously link to Magne land page instead of its armed branch.

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    • OMG did I just convince you :D

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    • Seems you actually did, congratulations ;)

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    • Yeah, SoS isn't due to come out for me for another 2 days T_T

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    • Meh SoS is the novel I enjoyed less anyway.

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    • I actually really liked it. What it lacked in storytelling it more than made up for in all the world building Sapkowski implemented.

      @Mechemik: You are gonna get it on a Day One too?

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    • Yep :)

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    • Hope you'll like it ;)

      PS: Why do you write centuries later? Elves left at some point in the 14th century and we agreed on writing from the point of view of the 15th century.

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    • You must have forgot that conversation we had earlier. As I said, I don't have SoS yet so I can't pinpoint the years.

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    • Also, I don't think that's the official quote on Ciri's page. I can't find it anywhere in the book. Anyone have any idea?


      EDIT


      Wait, I think I found it, and it's not official but rather a badly paraphased version where Ciri tells Vysogota in the tower that she didn't kill all her persuers, instead controlling herself. Overall, not a very solid quote directly from the book. I think I have a better quote from The Lady of the Lake that sums it up better and is official text.

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    • Uhm sorry. I actually did forget all about our talk, except obviously the fact that you don't have the book yet. As far as the quote is concerned, I don't remember it either. What I do remember is The Lady of the Lake quote in which Ciri admits she was blinded by hatred in direct contrast to this...... aaah you found it :)

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    • The only part regarding dates and Nimue in SoS is the 1373 when she is travelling to Aretuza (which could be useful with a few dates including her age, as LotL specifically mentions that third formers at Aretuza are 14 years old), is there any other confirmation about the elves leaving in 14th Century? As I recall, Condwiramurs notes how no-one has called Nimue "Squirt" for at least half a century, meaning at the earliest their meeting happens in the 15th Century and potentially even later than that.

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    • What exactly is Location 6988? I don't remember books having that much pages xD

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    • Sorry, I have a digital version of the books, and unforunately the Lake book doesn't have page options like the previous books for some reason >__< So my only other option is to put a "location" which is drastically different in numbers from pages.

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    • Perhaps is better not to add it at all, don't you agree?

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    • If you can tell the scene I have the book to hand

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    • Sure Josh. It's right after they set fire to the arena in Claremont and Geralt and Yennefer ask Ciri where next and just after she mentions going to the swamps (to bury Vysgota).

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    • Cheers, it's page 463.

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    • Thanks, adding it in now.

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    • @Josh: In SoS, some drunkards in Ivalo asked Nimue to show ears as they didn't want any elves in the town so they were still apparent in 1373. Skip half a century to TLotL and the Aen Seidhe are long left. I think the most logical assumption is that they left at the turn of the century.

      By the way you probably missed my previous message directed at you.

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    • Ah, yes certainly will do regarding Emblonia and any other locations too. 

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    • Grand! Also, what do you think about the elven departure now?

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    • I certainly have nothing against it, it's just fifty years from 1373 gives a minimum of around 25 years either way (about 25 before 1400, about 25 after). But I do agree that the way they talk about it implies it happened a while ago, and pre 1400 may well be the more likely, so no objections here. 

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    • Yeah, now that you mention it, in Lady of the Lake, the way they talk is that nobody can remember what Francesca really looked like, so either she died soon after she became duchess or people live extraordinary short lives xD

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    • She had some centuries on herself already plus there are extra 132 years between 1268 and 1400 or there about so I think she ruled for quite long as duchess. Longer than any duchess before that's certain :D

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    • Except if you take into account most people during this time could live to about 50-60 years old (guessing here due to not having modern science) that means she'd have to have died and all the people that knew her as well by around the early 1300s to even give some substance to the whole "nobody today knows what she looked like". And if people could live to their 80s-90s, even sooner (as we know some have lived that long).

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    • Nordlings don't have modern sciences, true, but as you'll learn in SoS many mages sell medicaments to commoners and this, combined with the fact that they mix with elves for centuries (even if they don't want to admit) should put them in 60-70 on average. As for Francesca, maybe humans chose not to remember? There's also possibility that elves themselves [pun not intended] somehow took care of it...

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    • I'm personally doubting to willingly choose not to remember, especially where artists and portraits are concerned, and I don't think the elves would be that powerful to remove the memories of someone from others' minds.

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    • Sorry what is this discussion about exactly?

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    • When I mentioned them "choosing to forget" I meant the choice as politically motivated and that would reflect on portraits as well. In real history, there was Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, Queen of England, whom the majority of artists painted inaccurately to hide her African ancestry. Judging by the relations between Vengerberg and the Valley, this would quite fit imo.

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    • @Bizippo: trying to discuss the plausibility of Francesca having died off sooner than we think.

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    • Why exactly do you guys want to know?

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    • I can't remember, does Nimue know what Francesca looked like? Because if not, that might suggest Francesca was gone prior to Nimue studying at Aretuza and learning about the lodge which would have (by my reckoning) been about 1375/76.

      Also does Francesca die for certain? Could she not have left with the other elves through the Door?

      EDIT; Although, come to think of it if elves are still on the Continent in 1373 when she is travelling to Aretuza, it would be unlikely that Francesca left with them if Nimue and the others at Aretuza don't know what she looked like or anything much else about her.

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    • Unless the elves weren't on the Continent in 1373. I was really curious about this case and, to be certain, grabbed my SoS turning to the page where they shout at Nimue to reveal her ears. Upon doing this I discovered they are actually checking if she isn't of elven heritage (i.e. half-elf or quadroon) and nothing in there clashes with the idea of pure-blood Aen Seidhe being present no longer.

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    • That is even more interesting then, that would indeed seem to support the notion of elves being gone well before 1400. Intriguing stuff.

      Did I read earlier that Sapkowski has confirmed he is working on another prequel novel like Season of Storms? If so, it'll be interesting to see if we get more post-Saga info there too.

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    • It indeed is. We should probably implement that into Aen Seidhe and elf articles. Funny how elves actually have something of an era in this world, beginning with 2230s BR and ending 1350s PR or thereabouts, spanning almost four millennia.

      Yes, he does and it's, supposed as so he says, his best work yet. Maybe he could show us something from the age of explorations in some flashforward with younger Fabio Sachs on a ship or a new continent.

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    • That is certainly good to hear. That would be neat, it'd be really nice to see other parts of the Witcher world explored, though I guess Geralt and where he has been does limit that slightly. But we do know that Sapkowski has many scenes that aren't from Geralt's perspective so I like to think the possibility is there. I know some people might not like the prequel setting of SoS, but I thought it was really good. I liked how Lytta, who was only mentioned a handful of times in the series, was fleshed out. It makes me wonder if any other minor characters from the short stories or Saga will be getting the same treatment in this next installment. 

      It is interesting with the elves. The post-Saga stuff is quite mysterious and vauge, especially the mid to late 1300s. Shani's death being around then, Guiscard Vermuellen remembering his grandfather and the Haak invasion must all happen more or less around the same period, possibly near to the time of the elves leaving. And Nimue herself can't have been born much later than that, maybe around 1361 if using the 1373 date.

      I'm just really hoping now that they've caught up on all the books in the series thus far in English, the translation time for the new one will be a lot shorter, hah. 

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    • Liked the SoS exactly for this reason, for all the world building that came within it and honestly after this book Sapkowski can take us anywhere in the North (and maybe beyond in some scenes with different characters). The whole affair with Lytta and King Belohun was first mentioned in the SoD but just without any further significance so thinking of it I actually remember another such mention. When Geralt first saw a knocker in TLotL and Avallac'h said him to mount it, he told him about staying in Mahakam once long ago and witnessing such things as mouflon races.

      By mentioning the Haak Invasion and the disappearance of elves in one sentence you created a theory in my head: what if these events are connected? Dol Blathanna and the Blue Mountains are one of the most eastern ends of the Northern Kingdoms (after all the short story is called "The Edge of the World") so logically it, along with Aedirn and Lyria and Rivia, suffered much during the invasion. And we even know that Lyria and Rivia cease to exist to the point when nobody knew where they lie...

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    • Back to what you were asking Juraj, Nimue states that "we don't know if the Daisy of the Valleys was really as comely as the tales have it. We have no idea at all what Ida Emean looked like."

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    • @Juraj True, it would be really neat to see Mahakam explored in some depth. Regarding Haak that does indeed sound plausible, maybe when the invasion kicked off the elves were getting the brunt of the assault, but found a way to open the Door and leave for good. Pure speculation, but it does sound possible. Oh yeah, when Schliemann and his team find Dandelion's manuscript Rivia is an ancient kingdom of unconfirmed location and the 13th century is counted among the Dark Ages. Also interesting that so far in the future the likes of that trio are still so afraid of sorcery.

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    • @Mechemik That would seem to be even more confirmation that Francesca (and indeed perhaps the rest of the elves) were gone before 1373 and maybe earlier.

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    • @Juraj: do you know where that current image of Ciri's infobox came from? Not questioning it being official, but rather it feels it was heavily edited regarding the colors and way oversaturated compared to the game shots/colors, so trying to see if there's a better version of it (or else replace it with the cutout render from the gallery of her with her sword).

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    • Can somebody also fix Ge'els infobox image, there are some smudges with png file, around his boots.

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    • @Josh: Since in the wake of the witch hunts many mages were elevated into saints and the whole society of sorcerers became somewhat holy it could be that the fear has slightly changed, going from "damned power" to "damn, godly power"? Pure speculation of course.

      @Mechemik: Saw it once on a CDPR Witcher forum back in the days when there was some activity. Not official at all, since it happened before Ansel update, one girl used debug console enabler to position Ciri like this and took the screen in high definition, later turning it into a render. As for the Francesca thing, yeah then it all seems to suggest they all packed up and left and somewhat managed to do it so that nobody who knew how they looked like was alive and sane lol.

      @Bizippo: Is tomorrow too late? I'm already lying in my bed and feel too comfy to get up :P

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    • Ah me too xD

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    • Dang it. Well, I can try to grab something else but the mod is very... finicky. Right now I haven't figured out how to change facial expressions so everyone is giving a deadpan look xD

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    • Can’t we use journal images and divide infobox in young Ciri and adult Ciri?

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    • As she's a special character, I'd rather have a nicer, more unique image for her (like same reason we don't just use the generic journal images for Yennefer, Geralt, Triss, etc.). Plus, those journal entries can go where the game entries are for them.

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    • Fine, but what about that separated infobox thing? As during the books she’s supposed to appear as child version she should be main as well (not necessarily that journal image).

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    • Still working on it. As I said, this mod is very finicky.

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    • How have you exactly calculated 15xx as the latest date in the novels, guys?

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    • The last date given in the novels is 1510 by Effenberg and Talbot regarding Flourens Delannoy, so we were using that as the "current" year of events. 

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    • Though thinking about it, it really could be any number of years after that. Perhaps Encyclopedia Maxima Mundi wasn't published for another hundred years, or a thousand. Just have to take what we have.

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    • I see. Why so certain about elves vanishing in 14th century though?

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    • Nimue is travelling to Aretuza in 1373 in SoS. In Lady of the Lake, Condwiramurs remarks that no-one has likely dared call Nimue by her nickname "Squirt" in around half a century. Obviously that has to be taken with a pinch of salt as 'around half a century' may well mean 40 years or 60 years. And of course there is the chance that Condwiramurs just doesn't know what she is talking about, hah.

      But taking it at face value, that could place Condwiramurs and Nimue's meeting at somewhere between 1410 and 1450 (and that is giving it an wide berth, giving a few years either way depending on whether Nimue was still called Squirt at Aretuza or not and she may well have still been called Squirt a while afterwards, prior to gaining her power and reputation) and it is strongly implied that the elves left via the Door a long while prior to their meeting.

      Personally, I'm not certain on it, as there is a lot of give either way. It may have been 14th, could have been early 15th, I think both could be argued. 

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    • Also, as Juraj has been mentioning, Nimue doesn't know what either Francesca or Ida really looked like in TLotL. We know that the elves took the art with them when they left, including that of Francesca. It seems a little unlikely that were Francesca's portraits or even Francesca herself still around when Nimue is explicitly studying the Lodge and its members at Aretuza that she wouldn't know what she looked like. This may suggest that the elves were even gone before 1373. But again it is pure speculation and conjecture, really.

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    • btw, before any of you ask, no the timestamp Plural thing isn't an isue on our end, it's a known bug on wikia's end. Also, this likely doesn't affect any of us, but wikia is also dropping support for the monobook skin on the 25th. What this means in terms of the CSS pages being merged or not, I've yet to see anything about.

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    • I think that after years the question can finally get a answer... what's the official demonym of Kerack? :D

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    • Actually, and regretfully, I don't think there will be an answer. I'm going to re-read the book and that'll take a little while, but I've had a scan through whilst correcting fan translations and I don't believe it is ever mentioned. Kerack is only ever mentioned as just that - Kerack; and all instances that may have called for it (that I can immediately see) like, say, the kings, is written kings of Kerack and not for example Kerackian/other demonym kings. Is it different for your language version?

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    • Eh, that's what I was fearing, and no, same for me :(

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    • Damn, that's annoying. Hopefully we can find some compromise as it would be a shame not to have the Kerack flag on those of Kerack nationality.

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    • Indeed. I think we can start using Kerackian template for now... Mechemik?

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    • Yeah, for now until they'll confirm it.

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    • Don't know if you guys already know/have talked about this by Sapkowski is supposed to be doing a AmA on r/books on the 27th. Might be a chance to ask him some of these questions. 

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    • Didn't know, thx for mentioning it. About the asking, yeah sure, though I think there are better topics to talk to him about then his preferred English demonym for Kerack :D

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    • Oh yeah, definitely, haha.

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    • Some site questions for you guys: do you like the font size the way it is in the infoboxes? I could see about making it smaller if you guys think it's too big (like Fallout's wiki size)

      Also, do you think we should do away with the "buy now" box on the main page? I've been iffy about it, as the game's been out for 3 years now, but still undecided if to leave it or remove it.

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      • I personally prefer ours.
      • How would you replace it then tho?
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    • It wouldn't be replaced, just simply removed (each "box" on the front is an indivual template, think like modular sofas, a part can be removed without disrupting the rest).

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    • I'm ok with removing it, though it doesn't do any harm anyway.

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    • Our size is good.

      How about changing it to buy the Season of Storms?

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    • Yeah was thinking the same.

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    • Sure, could do that too. The link though would likely go to Amazon if that's ok.

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    • Since these things come in threes, what about Frundsberg?

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    • @Bizippo/Juraj Just wanted to check something with your language versions of the books, I'm presuming this is a translation error.

      In Blood of Elves, at the start, we are told three enchantresses were said to have died at Sodden Hill; Triss, Coral and one other whose name Donimir couldn't remember, implying the rest were all male. I think it's safe to assume this one other was Vanielle, as Vanielle doesn't really (imo) sound like a man's name. 

      However in BoE, right at the end of Chapter Three, Triss says "I realised that the pile of rags was Yoel and that thing next to her...", implying that Yoel was a woman. But in SoD (last page of Chapter Seven), just after Geralt visits the obelisk, Yurga says "perhaps you knew him". So i'm confused. Hah.

      Was just wondering what he/she is referred to in both instances in your versions?

      EDIT; Googling the names seems to confirm that Vanielle is a feminine name and Yoel is a masculine name, felt it better to check just in case, though.

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    • I'm not home currently, will check in 10 minutes. Can you describre me the scene where Yurga mentions Yoel?

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    • Thanks, it is immediately after Geralt visits the Hill and reads the names, he asks Yurga who the last name was. I'm inclined to believe that this one is correct, it's really the BoE that throws it.

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    • Yes even in Sword of Destiny Yoel is male, though in my version is called Yol.

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    • Cheers, that rings true at least, how about the part where Triss refers to him as her in BoE?

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    • Which was the scene sorry? I don't have chapters written in my book.

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    • It is just before they leave Kaer Morhen, the last discussion they have. Triss is talking about making a stand in the war to the other witchers and Geralt and mentions what happened at Sodden.

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    • Yoël is definitely a man in Polish.

      Pls, don't make any article about Frundsberg as a place until I consult the map with Sapkowski. I have a kind of an... idea what to do with it, but it's pure fanon at the moment.

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      • Oh ok, nice coat of arms btw, what do those runes mean by the way? Also, which idea exactly if I may ask..
      • Incoming Josh, just a moment.
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    • No Josh is a mistake in your translation, in my Blood of Elves Yoel is a man.

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    • Thanks guys, figured as much, just wanted to make sure. 

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    • Josh can you check in Time of Contempt during Peter Evertsen speech if the Winneburg Tactical Company is actually led by a duke? Mine's a prince.

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    • It's duke.

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    • Now that’s odd.

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    • Remains prince in Czech, Slovak, and more importantly Polish editions too. That's probably because English translator tried to avoid any possible confusion between heirs to royal thrones (królewicz = royal prince) and high-positioned nobles (książę = prince).

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    • ...so? It’s quite important because it would change Winneburg from duchy to kingdom / principality..

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    • Principality, due to the difference explained up there. If we are to make this change then there's a similar issue with Ellander, Attre etc.

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    • So is Windhalm prince of Attre and Hereward prince of Ellander to you guys?

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    • Doesn't matter if they are that to us but they are princes to Sapkowski.

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    • That was what I meant, in your translations/the original Polish. Hereward is also called prince in English in Voice of Reason 3. Nenneke calls him duke and Tailles corrects her. How does that section read for you?

      EDIT; Also, do the titles duke/duchess appear in your languages as a seperate word from the high-positioned nobles (książę = prince) you mentioned? Such as Henrietta and Raymund, are they this word so prince/princess or are they duke/duchess?

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    • I can't check now Josh sorry. Juraj thing is that we are treating canon sometimes English translation (for names) and sometimes polish one, which should we use?

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    • The question becomes titles: in English, Dukes/Duchess are one step below royalty (basically, the highest ranking noble that can be non-royal). Typically, calling someone "prince" in English means they're a direct child of a king/queen. So do we know if these people that are called "prince" in Polish (but are using the high-ranking noble title rather than "child of regency" one) are children of regency? If not, then I'd say the English translator did use the correct term here for English.

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    • Hereward certainly isn't. Nenneke makes a point of saying "In my day, only those with royal blood were adressed as princes, but now, it seems, titles don't mean so much."

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    • Yeah, I'd gotten that feeling with Hereward that it was more of a self-style title of prince than actually bestowed on him.

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    • Nope, they are totally not children of regency or anything like that (except for Anarietta who is distantly related to Emreis family apparently). 

      As for Ellander, I found this matter interesting and so delved deeper into the matter and found out that Ragbard who ruled some three or four generations before Hereward is indeed Duke ("diuk") and not Prince ("książę") in the Genealogy. Therefore it's correct what you two here pointed out, what Mechemik said and Nenneke was angry about.

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    • @Mechemik why now the yellow exclamation mark is sticked to title in infobox of mission pages?

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    • It's because I changed the icon images to have no spacing around them to make it easier for editing purposes. The only one that has some is BaW's, as some reason the developers added a red glow around that (but quest items for that expansion don't have the glow, weird).

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    • Oh I see, tho now when they're sticked they look bad.

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    • Yeah, but it's an easy fix (just add a space between the template and the pagename).

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    • Also Bizippo, I haven't forgotten wanting an image for Nilfgaardians talking. Unfortunately, they don't seem to be a particularly talkative bunch and I've only found 2 soldiers so far that look like they're talking xD

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    • Oh NP xD mm... that mod you used to make that child Ciri render, couldn’t be useful?

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    • Eh, the mod I used was more for creating small videos (like if you wanted to create your own interactions for cutscenes and whatnot) but wasn't very good to create a still shot. But I can try to see if there's some way to pose them.

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    • I also remember that many Nilfgaardians used to speak during Imperial Audience quest, perhaps Morvran speaking with that officer could work?

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    • Did you forget to remove info about Verrieres being hanged on Battle of White Orchard page or do you want it to stay btw?

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    • Either remove it or add a note to see the contradictory notes on his page.

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    • What should I write? I actually didn’t know anything about this contradictiory.

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    • Ok, I fixed it so it's in the notes instead.

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    • Cool, can I add general “Lord of White Orchard” as commander?

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    • Sure

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    • Also, where are you getting some of these images?

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    • Like?

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    • Tomira's hut, the battlefield, Yoana, etc.

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    • Battlefield from a promotional screenshot, Yoana from Russian wiki, Tomira I don’t remember, I took it from Italian wiki where I uploaded it some months ago, I don’t remember the source, perhaps was Czech wiki or something. I don’t know if they take them from some other sites tho.

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    • Ohhh, yeah might want to be careful there, especially with anything from the Russian wiki (they like to add in fanart and modified games to their images).

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    • Uhm, I just noted that Tomira's hut image is from gamepedia, can you delete it and take a picture?

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    • Oh great, even Yoana.

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    • Ok

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    • Saw this otherwise, could it work?

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    • Just uploaded a pic for it.

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    • Bizippo wrote: Oh great, even Yoana.

      Cool, think you missed this tho.

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    • Oh yeah, I did miss that, ugh.

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    • Ehh, sometimes I wish the wikis to merge together again, it would be better for everyone and sites would grow and work faster. This competition is a real plague.

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    • Well, from reading past notes and blogs, the admins over there used to be here, but they got fed up with various Wikia policies (some of which I can't blame them on, like Wikia's stupid policies on nudity) and thus the 2 separate wikis now, and until Wikia changes its policies back (very unlikely) I highly doubt they'd come back here.

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    • Yeah I'm aware on what happened, they could reach an agreement tho :/ Nudity is not so needed.

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    • Except the things Wikia nitpicks over with nudity is really absurd. You've seen how we've had to censor things, like even Ga'el's cubism painting, because that's how badly Wikia censors that sort of stuff.

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    • Yeah, wonder why.

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    • Perhaps Wikia staff could accept something like aa NSFW banner on pages that contein nudity, I don't know..

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    • Do you think there should be two separated pages for White Orchard village and region?

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    • Maybe.

      Why did you remove the city of Salm redlink? The place does exist and is mentioned in Roegner's Genealogies entry.

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    • The problem is, with White Orchard, there'd be so little info to go on the region one, would it even be worth it? The description, images, etc. are all about the village, leaving just locations for the region.

      On antoher note, I'm thinking we really need to separate out the Northern Wars. It doesn't make sense to have them all on one page.

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      • Well we have pages for regions we know even less of.
      • Why tho?
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    • Which regions? If you're referring to ones mentioned in the books, it's simply because of that: we have nothing else on them or if there's even a village or county with the same name.

      Because unless it's one giant, ongoing war (which we know it wasn't, as peace treaties were written up each time) they shouldn't be all on one page. It's like if wikipedia decided to combine WWI and WWII pages: sure, people tended to stay on the same sides in both, but they were both very separate wars and different reasons for them and events.

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      • I still can’t see the problem, there are enough info imo, and it’s also described as region by CDPR iteslf (with Coat of arms and such).
      • Mh, yeah now I see your point.
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    • One more thing, are we going to do something with maps in pages? Because current locations articles look quite useless to me.. I mean there is just a image and some description with nothing that actually the player to find them, if not for some basic indications like East of, South of... which I doubt they help much..

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    • I need to check back with the one who was working on interactive maps to see if it's ready to go. Last I heard, he was working on re-doing some old code.

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    • Also Josh, just keep it as "mage" in profession. It keeps it simple (no need to genderize it, especially for those whose gender we don't know) and it goes directly to the page (sorcerer/sorceress pages are redirects).

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    • Oh okay, no worries.

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    • Thanks :)

      Also, anyone have a good gwent card art for the mage page? I'm getting sick of staring at those two top images there xD

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    • My words... unfortunately still nothing on Gwent :/ the ony alternative right now would be to add a major character mage..

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    • Dang it. Well, guess it's a good time as any to look through them and fix them up (been meaning to organize them in some way so we can cut down on duplicates). Also, you'll be happy to know I found links to quite a few of the gwent artists, so now their info can be added! :p (because I know you love that idea so much)

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    • Uh... you mean that tabel like on concept arts... O.o ?

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    • Yep :p

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    • Oh well, cya guys. Nice to have met you :D

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